Hey! Back to our regularly scheduled program. I've read in many threads in recent months about the "Z-Bridle" for flying various DPs and Stars off of
handles. Can somebody kindly help a brother out? Is there a good historical thread somebody could point me to? If not, a simple explanation? Double
secret bonus points for pictures or drawings! Thanks in advance!
There's the link to the z bridle thread for NPW's. I'm not aware of putting a z bridle on a depower, but you can fly your peak with handles using any
length of lines without a Z bridle. I had to make sure I had the right amount of brake tension so it's responsive.
That's a cool looking bar design Steve. Never seen one like that before. Wonder what's on the inside of that one? Looking forward to your thoughts on
different bar length settings as well.
Just put the right knot at the bar ends. something easy to untie, yet stay in place. Like a figure 8 knot, etc.
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
Pretty impressive considering we have filled page after page on other threads about them. Of course these are exciting times in the USA branch of the
born kite pilots and new stuff coming out.
We are on the same page Jason regarding knots for the bar ends. I had already given this some thought and was considering tying a triple overhand
knot. Nice and bulky but easy to "break".
Master plan: taking the best suggestions from my fellow Star devoties (you know who you are!). I thought I'd use color-coded sharpies to mark out
the positioning of the little slider and a series of knots at the top of the center line for attaching the center bridle. If upon experimentation it
turns out that I want a progressively longer center line as kites get bigger then I may color-code the knots too.
Color code the bar end holes you ask? Now that would just be obsessive.
I've set my posts per page at 80 so still only page 2 for me :D
I think the Z bridle is only for Nasas, I don't think there is any derivative for a depower as the design of the Z bridle is intended to allow extra
pressure to be applied to the TE of the kite at the pilots request (applying brake pressure) otherwise there is equal pressure across all the
bridling. Its not an on the fly adjustment like depow.... at least thats the best explanation I can give it.
I really like that triple overhand knot... that's pretty slick.
I took a look at the Z-bridle thread. Cool stuff, but over my head in terms of what I'm willing to do. Thanks for the heads up to the link
nonetheless!
In the mighty world of knot tying and related nautical lore, IMHO there is no better source text than the Ashley Book of Knots. This tomb was
originally published in the 1940s and has strikingly beautiful illustrations bringing you back to the age of the mighty Clipper Ships.
My dad and I used to go through it together when I was a kid. He would give me assignments and I would study the book and learn all sorts of new
knots, understand when and why they are used, and even the history of different knots. Those were fun times for us lying on our living room rug
challenging each other to tie different knots and stuff like that. My favorite was the bowline with double loop:
I figure a group of kite enthusiasts like ourselves would appreciate this, even if it is a tad off the Born-Kite theme.
Jason - thanks for posting those pics! Ultra star fever. I didn't bother to try and decifer the German but from the pics the Ultra Star has me
thinking Peak2. Not that there is anything wrong with that; my 12m P2 is my favorite kite in my quiver.
I will be most interested to see how these Ultra Stars stack up lift/grunt wise with the other Stars in Steffen's lineup. Speaking only for myself, I
still want to fill in my single skin quiver to bridge the gap between my 4m NS3 and 7m Long Star (on order as of this morning!). I'm holding out for
an Ultra Star!!! 5.5m?????
Well just looking at the wing shape, its got to be faster and prolly his best upwind skin design yet. I'm still on the fence with this, or just
grabbing a Peak.
Curious how this bar setup will look and work, and how the kite's depower range. I really like how the Stars and Peaks both have the push out
depowering of the kite.
Congrats on the Long Star too! Mama's got to be about ready to ring your neck
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
Nah, Mama's all good. Problem is the payback. She just let me know she is going to head to SoCal in a couple of weeks to play with long standing
girlfriends. Those girl trips make my kite fettish seem like a bargain.
My thinking Peak2 vs Ultra Star. We are all pretty much cornered into buying new with these Stars (we being the coveted "early adopters" in the sales
world). Peak2s on the other hand to me are better suited for picking up used. The rub is finding a Peak2 owner that will part with his kite. So, it
you can find the right sized P2 on the used market at the right price then snatch it up! Like you though, part of the fun is getting to try the new
stuff. Nice 1st world problem.
I want to know size to power stats on these new Stars to figure out where they might slot into a quiver.
Jacked or not, makes no difference to me. I think the peak 1 bar is almost perfect. Ultra simple. My only small complaint is the small hole for the
depower line in the bar. It doesn't bother me control wise but I think it puts undo wear on the depow line. Other than that I think it's perfect.
The depower range is good enough on mine that I don't need to trim on the fly. The 2 settings are great and you can still tinker with those if you
want.
My next wing is either gonna be a 10m Nasa Star, the Ultra Star, or a Peak...
I know where I stand with NASA Stars. The Peak has a big following with good support for tips, mods, etc. The Ultra Star is an unknown. We kinda know
what to expect in basic form, but its a new model. I have 100% confidence Steffen will get it right the first time. So... Decisions decisions.
This will be my last wing for a good while, so I want to make the best choice on the first swing. Lol
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
I was thinking about it when I went out the other day to fly static on my lunch break.
The original post on this thread by Jason (3shot) was about the sluggish turning of his 7m and the new longer bar he had modded in order to help with
that... So I paid attention to the turning habits of my NS3 7m in flight and what I found was this: my 7m is slow turning in sub 10 mph winds, but
once it blows up over that, it turns IMO just as fast as my smaller sizes... now I've little experience flying any Nasa Star under 5.5m so that may be
an unfair comparison, (I don't own a 2.5m and I've only flown the 4m a hand full of times), and I'm not saying that Jason is wrong by any means, but I
just wanted to pay attention and share my observations.
It seems obvious with ANY kite that the speed of the turn is correlated to the windspeed, but I DO think that with the Stars it is probably more
exaggerated. It may have to do with the ram air aspect of foils combined with their use of apparent wind, that they hold their shape and can continue
moving at speed in lighter air... just thinking out loud.
Maybe this is conjecture but one reason the smaller sizes turn so quick is because we use them in stronger winds... that's the reason we have them,
they are high wind engines... the bigger ones ARE slower moving because we use them in lighter winds... their mass is bigger combined with lighter
forces on them to turn. I'm pretty sure if you put up a 4m in sub 10 - 10 mph wind it would turn pretty slow too... yes faster than a 7m, but still
slower than in a 15 mph breeze. Still just thinking out loud...
Someone tell me if you think I'm wrong, cuz really I'm just waxing intellectual and spitting out what I'm thinking... but it makes sense to me.
I shot the following with the iPhone while flying one-handed hoping to see something and I feel like I did... a little ... I think that there is a
visible difference (esp with the upturn at the end). Forgive the camera work... it was tricky work holding the phone and flying at the same time.
ha...funny, im so twin skin im just getting around to peruse this thread now....you guys really drink this 1le skin cool aid all up
Yes we do. :D Hopefully still an entertaining thread even if your not a single skin fan.
Spencer, I think your right. turning is slower in light air and using large ones in light air does contribute. I find the same thing. When wind is
up then turning is always much better. Working the lighter stuff, I do think a longer bar would be beneficial. I've been wanting to try a longer bar
with my short lines and longboard since I'm usually working a much lighter wind than with buggy.
Spencer - nice video and observations about turning speeds and wind strength. I suspect you are right on target with your thinking. Fine use of the
English language BTW right at the end of the clip. :saint:
I imagine it was tough holding the iPhone in one hand and kiting with the other. Next time consider making a small ring with some Duct Tape and
sticking the iPhone on your forehead. Think of it as an econo GoPro helmet cam. :evil:
Nice experiment Spencer. That is exactly what my flying was like last week!! Started out sub 10, then went to the 5.5 when it climbed over 12mph. I
also agree that the kites performance is directly proportional to its size and wind speed. Any kite flies and turns quicker in its upper wind range.
What I found on a longer bar was the 7m turned quicker without having the increased wind speed to do so. So basically, the longer bar helped its
lower wind range turn speed. But, there again, I don't have a NS3 to compare it to.
The NS3 is an improved NS2. I think mostly with the trailing edge bridles. BUT, the turn speeds will all be proportional to each size regardless if
which model.
My NS2 2.5m is like a hornet on crack in 25 mph winds with the 55cm bar. I wouldn't even try the 65cm bar with a 2.5m :wow:. That's what I meant
earlier by "over steering".
That was my static experience. Now, what I hope to see next time is in the buggy..... I hope the increased turn speed will let me sine the larger kite
faster equaling more apparent wind. Keeping the kite tighter in the window's sweet spot. Besides.. What else do I have to do in crappy lull filled
janky summer wind. Lol
Steve should be able to tell us more too. With his new bar he got, he can literally go from 55 to 65cm in under 30 seconds. Land the kite, swap two
knots, and relaunch. He should see a big difference in his 8.5's lower wind range turn speed.
Cross Kites Sonic 3, 5m
Ozone Flow 2, 3, 4, 5m
Ace II 4, 5m
NAPKA-US24
4, 5, 6m ATB landsurfer. Custom longboard deck
Buggy: VTT Black Widow v2.0
Dang, everytime I see a picture of a nasa star, I want to go fly mine and take some decent pictures to add to the thread.
On a different note, I flew my 7m on long lines along an entrance road to a park (longboard). I just hug the downwind edge and let traffic go around
without stopping. It was cruising bliss. I had at least 5 people drive slowly by and said how awesome it was. That usually happens when I'm on the
board. It's funny how longboard attracts so much attention where as I can only remember 1 time somebody commenting anything when I'm in the buggy.
Buggy is one of those things that you need first hand experience to truly appreciate at it I guess
Fellow Star enthusiasts: I found a link to the Universal bar I ordered for adjusting the outside lines for my Stars. I measured the bar that I got
from Steffen and center to center of the tie-in holes seemed to measure at 465mm give or take. That was exciting news for me because I had ordered
this bar while I was on a business trip so I didn't have the bar to measure against when I pulled the trigger.
Since the Universal bar I'm getting adjusts in 5cm increments from 45-60cm that seemed pretty sweet! 45 cm for the smallest Stars, 50-55cm for the
mid range, and 60cm for the Mac Daddies.
I'm figuring I'll get the bar in about 7-10 days from now as it came out of England. I didn't dig into the website too deeply, but at first blush it
doesn't look as if they have a US distributor. If you click on the site's online store they offer the bar "naked" (yikes!) for 85 Eur. The bar
appears to come with rear pre-lines.
I got my bar for GBP 40 which is about 55 EUR or about $62 US. So a little cheaper than 85 EUR, but not much (dang! thought I was getting a better
deal).
Once I get it I'll rig it up, test it, and report out to this crew. Who knows, maybe it will be the next BIG THING!
:bigok:
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