hi all,

just been out for a fly with my beamer 2.0m and been trying to pratice brake turns,i am finding that when i do brake the kite has a tendency to loose its shape,collapse and fall out of sky.wind was strong and pulling me good and well so i am guessing its operator error rather than a wind problem

any ideas would most be grateful

i now also have a hq beamer 4.0m so keen to get some more pratice in on the 2.0m first.i am feeling more confident and in control with kite but want to tidy it up so more yet!

Assuming you've got it all strung up correctly I'd venture a guess that you are applying the brakes in too exaggerated a fashion. Like anything, flying is a skill that takes repetition to develop what gets called "muscle memory". Practice applying just a tiny amount of brake force to one hand as you turn in that same direction. Increase the brake input on successive turns until you find out you are using too much brake input. Only brake on one side at a time unless you are trying to scrub power, drop the kite backwards, or reverse launching.

Practice, practice, practice.

Since you have two complete kites, I recommend just keep the lines and handles attached to both kites. Every one of my kites is packed up in its bag with its lines and handles still attached. When you land your kite, stake off the brake lines to keep it parked while you walk to the kite. Fold the kite up all the way except for the final roll. Walk back to your stake and begin rolling the lines up with the handles until you get to the kite. Just put the handles at one end of the kite and roll the kite around them. I even do the same with my giant depowers. I park the kite, fold it up most of the way, and then roll the lines and bar up at the last bit and stuff it all in the bag. I hate swapping lines around for each kite as that gets tedious and takes away from the fun part of just laying out the kite, walking the lines back and launching.

due to the wet weather in the uk at the moment each time i have flown the kite has been wet and little muddy so i have disconnected the lines so i can wipe kite down after.

the other day at work i made a small alloy metal strip and drilled four holes in then put some shoe laces through the holes with a knot on each end.connected my lines to the knots and it worked ok and no knots when i wrapped and unwrapped lines.


http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/l624/m00ms/IMG_1243.jpg

just need to work out why kite collapases when i brake turn,not sure if its clumsy hands or if i have brake lines little tight.

I think you are over-doing your brake motion. Small kites react vey fast and very extremely to input.

Are you holding the handles correctly?

It also sounds like your brake lines just may be a bit short? Try and make them longer ( or front lines shorter ) using the knots on your leader lines.

Fly the kite to zenith. If wind is good is should sit there happy. Just LIGHTLY touch the brake on one side then let loose. The kite should dip to that side then settle down. Tap the other side and it should return.

Odds are you are over-doing most motions. Smaller smoother motions delivered ahead of time are what you are after.

hi bladerunner

i dont think that the wind i have been flying in the few times has been too great as its very gusty and not constant at all but i guess its time spent learning.i did fly up to the zenith and it stayed there then collapsed when i tried each brake seperatly.

funny you say am i holding handles correctly,i hold them with one finger above top line.i have noticed that i have more slack on my right brake line than my left and i have line set same on knots each of the brake lines at the kite end so i am guessing i must be holding my left hand slightly different.next time out i will drop back a knot and watch my hands.

i do find that my 2m is very fast and quicker than my thinking time but sure that will go with time.

sadly the 5m beamer through ebay fell through and i got refunded so i brought a new beamer 4m.i look forward to getting some more time in with the 2m then when theres a day were the wind is to light for the 2m but fine for me to try the 4m out!

sadly wind to today is super strong and gusts around the high 30mph mark so no more practice today.

thanks for all your help so far and i hope your getting out flying and buggying?

Another thought to check..... are you taking the kite right to the edge of the window then upturning it after it's run out of power and it's stalling? If so, either down turn it (you'll end up with crossed lines but you can uncross them at the next turn) or turn it just before the edge of the window so there's still some power in the kite.

hi john

i am finding that any time i use the brakes its collapsing,sure i am only pulling one at a time and will check next time im out.

i am trying bladerunners suggestion of flying to top of zenith then giving brake a tap but it just losses shape and drops until wind picks it back up again.

i am also drawn to in your video where you fly to window edge and down turn it and fly back across.i may have been trying to do down turn but not at edge of window fully,is that a problem? would i be right in saying not as surely theres still power there to keep kites shape

You mentioned one side seeming slacker than the other even though your lines are on symmetrical pigtail line knots. I wouldn't rule out your lines being of different lengths. Some line sets seem susceptible to length creep more than others. All four lines should be the same length (or at least, the power lines should be equal and the brake lines equal in length). Alas, this isn't always the case after some use. I had a lineset on a kite that I owned for a few years that ended up being several centimeters different after a while. I ended up making up the difference by having the different lines on different pigtail knots to even things out at the kite.

At the risk of going too basic, power lines are the TOP lines at the handles and at the kite. If your lineset seems to have lines of two thicknesses, the power lines are the stouter of the two.

With a FB kite, the brake lines should be just short of being under tension under normal flying conditions, but tight enough that the kite will respond to SMALL movements. When we are talking about tapping the brakes we are talking about a vertical pivot of the handles that may only result in the angle of the handles (when seen from the side) changing a couple of degrees. Put in another way, flexing your wrists vertically to pivot the handles only changes the length of the brake lines 1-3 cm. Twitches really.

Gross movements either with the brakes as just described or pulling one handle towards your body to turn gets you into trouble. Small movements are the key here as they affect line length. Yes, this is not the easiest thing to do when the general pull of the kite is yanking you out of your socks, but therein lies the skill. Yeah, buffeting gusty winds don't make this any easier. Welcome to the Janky Wind Club. This is an actual club with an actual (self-appointed) president (soliver). :D

without reading the whole thread word for word, I think I'm getting a sense for what could be the problem. Seems like your timid to go out in decent wind. A 2 meter kite is going to be happiest in 12 mph all the way up to 20's flying static. More wind and time on the kite will solve your problems and answer your questions at the same time.

NOW, loosen your brakes and do not report back until you have been drug face first at least once. It's the only way.

ssayre the other day the wind around the 14mph mark with gusts up to 25mph mark so im not timid to go out in a decent wind.sadly here in the uk the weather is all the place so i am just trying to fly the best in what we have.

does seam like i maybe have my brake lines a little tight mixed with clumsy hands but being new to this i guess i will make some mistakes

i do appreciate peoples advise and help and sure with some more time spent i will sort these problems

sorry mooms, didn't mean to sound judgmental or scare you off from asking questions. The folks on here genuinely enjoy helping so keep at it and keep asking questions until you've got it down.

Speaking from my personal experience starting out, I would highly advise leaving lines attached to kite and using the sock method or similar for wind up. Even If you get the kite dirty or wet, I would still always leave the lines attached when I cleaned or aired out. This allows the set up and pack up to be quick and painless and encourages quick impromptu sessions when time is limited. Nothing wrong with detaching lines every time if that's what's working for you though.

I have spring clips hanging in front of the garage..when i get home if I need to, I hang the kite leading edge down get the sand, seaweed and crustations out and hose or blow it down
It gets me off the beach fast and carefree and I take care of the equipment on my terms

thats fine and not a problem.this forum has been a great help and i very possibly would not of taken up this hobby without it and the help from all on here.

it didnt take long to set up kite the other day and re attach the lines but now over here in the uk the evenings are getting lighter longer and its almost to the point where if the wind theres then i can get some pratice in after work so i will try the lines attached option then.

Quote:

.i may have been trying to do down turn but not at edge of window fully,is that a problem? would i be right in saying not as surely theres still power there to keep kites shape

Spot on - the further in from the edge of the window you are, the more power you've got. And if you're in 14 - 25mph winds, I doubt you're running out of power at the edge of the window. Sounds like too much tension on the brakes which will push all the air out of one side causing a stall and sometimes a spin. Any chance of a video?

i dont have a go pro but if i can attach my phone to my rucksack strap i will try and get a video next time i get out.hopefully loosening brakes lines by a knot will help out and just leave clumsy hands to sort out!

hey all,

9 mph wind today with no gusts so i toke the 4m out for its first flight! can i say i like it a lot!

i have managed to find out what was going wrong with the brakes.i found that that when pulling the brakes i was pulling it strange so handle was not really pivoting around where the top line is between your fingers if that makes any sense,so the brake was not really getting pulled much.

also had a look at why more slack brake on one side,checked lines length and all seamed ok so i adjusted the knot on the top power lines on the handles to equal it out when flying.not sure if that is normal to do that but now when flying both brakes lines have same slack on them.

also found today that you do not pack up and go home when you get tired or hungry but only when the wind dies off!!

awesome mooms. Is it the latest beamer or the model before? both are great looking kites

thanks ssayre,both my beamers are version 6.

2m is red/yellow/white and 4m blue/orange/white.your not wrong,they both look great espically the 4!

Sounds as if things are coming together for ya mOOms. Good stuff. :cool2:

thanks windstruck...yes it does seam to be getting there and i am enjoying it.

wind looks to be very strong gusts rest of weekend so think i am going to try reverse launching the 2m as i tried today with the 4m but kept letting wrong brake off after take off and spinning kite wrong way and putting more twists in or collapsing kite into a ball!

massive thanks and encouragement for all on here for helping me and taking time to write me some tips (sure there will be more!)

Great to here you got the 4m up !

I think your logic is right on. Adjust each side so that the brakes have even slack in them when your handles are in neutral.
This is part of why I find it's best to keep my handles and lines connected + not to swap them. Each kite will want a bit different brake input.

Try and get time in on the 4m. I think you are making too extreme motions. It is very common at 1st. The 4m will be a bit more forgiving of that.

I whole lot of what makes this a valuable forum is being able to help folks like you along. To help you avoid the mistakes we made. It is just rare we get somebody so willing to listen to what we suggest!

today the winds were stronger at 15mph with gusts forecast later.

i did enjoy flying the 4m yesterday and it was great to fly the 2m today and see the difference.

2m in todays wind was great and strong enough to keep shape and not too strong which meant i could ignore the kite and watch my hands and see how im holding handles.for about 40 minutes it was great and i was in great control and doing wicked brake turns,flying to top of zenith and doing brake flicks so very happy.

but then the gusts came and it was just a nitemare! my control disappeared and kite just became a complete handful.turns out the gust were 30mph so hopefully i can be excused for calling it a day!

i am still swapping kites on the same lines and handles as that seams to be working for me at the moment with how i store/clean kites.i dropped back a knot today on the 2m so that makes both my kites set the same so thatll be easy to remember!

i am reading and taking on board everyones help and comments although i know i am doing different with the lines/handles but all else is a great help and very much appreciated.

hi all

do we celebrate your first spanking on here? if so the 4m got me today!!

only about 9mph wind and kite was only just holding its shape then a gust came along and before i could bring it down on the brakes i was on my knees then on my side! i thought it was funny and it must of looked like when you see a motor bike rider with throttle stuck open!

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms

hi all do we celebrate your first spanking on here? if so the 4m got me today!! only about 9mph wind and kite was only just holding its shape then a gust came along and before i could bring it down on the brakes i was on my knees then on my side! i thought it was funny and it must of looked like when you see a motor bike rider with throttle stuck open!

Celebration is absolutely in order! Check out the back end of the kite skate video I posted last night. No shame!

M00ms something to keep in mind is when the wind picks up, do not let your first reaction be to get on the brakes. Your first reaction should be to get the kite out to one side and low to the ground, and THEN you can put on the brakes. In strong winds you don't want to go pulling brakes too much with the kite over your head because that can lead you to do the same out of muscle memory when you get picked up in the air. You want to either let it go to kite killers or bring it down to one side or the other before you hit the brakes.

thanks demon knight i shall remember low and side for next time as i am sure there will be a next time!

when you say let it go to the kite killers am i wrong in thinking that using both brakes together is just a more controlled way of killing it rather than letting the handles go?

Letting go to kite killers is a punch turn, not a pull turn. What I mean by that is it gives slack to the power, rather than giving tension to the brakes if that makes sense. If you ever watch a stunt kite tutorial video you will know what I mean by punch turn. Pulling the brakes on a kite to land it is totally fine, just not really something you want to do when you are overpowered with the kite parked over your head. Some fixed bridle kites gain a little pull when you hit the brakes. I know my Toxic did, and my Reactors do. It could just make a scary situation more scary is all I mean. Best thing to do if you are overpowered is either bring it down to one side and then land it with brakes, or just drop to killers from anywhere.

Kite killers are placed far enough up the brake leaders that when you let go ,the kite flags out and loses internal air pressure ,thereby causing it to become a flapping rag.

thanks demoknight that makes perfect sense with how you have worded that,its all learning on my behalf and thanks for your help

trying to work out what the weather is doing this weekend and if i can get out at some point for some more practice.