Nice Steve. John's talking about the Auto Quick Release (AQR). In theory, the ones like Spencer and I have will work. I posted a pic of mine a page or two ago. Just haven't tried mine with a Star yet. Glad you are liking the longer bar on the bigger stars. I know it make a big difference on my NS2s! Ride on brother. I love your videos. Thanks for sharing.

Edit..

One thing I really appreciate about the Stars is being 100% able to dump the power. Of course, unhooked I mean. Generally speaking the wind itself becomes the safety by ripping the bar out of my hands in a bad gust. Then its over. The kite is dumped. I know it really sucks, but anymore I strong arm my kites in my inland jank. Even with the yellow ball, its too sketchy sometimes. A heavy bug and a super wide axle does help with side pull a lot, but its still sketchy sometimes like I said. Just the byproduct of sucky inland trash wind I get most of the time.

That's what really has my interest in the Peak. Its so similar to Star operation with letting the bar out to dump power, but having really good upwind with a reduced side pull. That's what I hope anyway.

Jason and John - Believe me, I've studied the AQR photos and thought about it.... slick and sweet system. The whole kiting thing is an evolutionary process for all of us. Maybe I'll head that way over time. I certainly appreciate the suggestion; it's a good one.

Sean - Your suggestion of hitting the safety of course makes total sense. Both of our real-world names start with S. In your case it also stands for "sensible"; for me, "stubborn" (stupid?). I need to get past this, but I tend to approach hitting the safety as an absolute last resort, akin to pulling the ejection lever in a fighter jet that jettisons the pilot but looses the plane. Jason - you made this comment too of course, but I wanted to crack myself up a bit with my sensible/stubborn comparison and your name just didn't fit that narrative!

I'm still gap-filling my quiver. My acquisition of the 6m P2 went a huge way towards doing this! I completely agree with the comments about winds that shift between 10-20mph - Peak conditions for sure! My smaller NS3s will likely be reserved for high steady winds should those ever materialize. Unlikely around here, but there's always the playa at Ivanpah!!!! :evil:

My thoughts exactly Steve. I have the same mindset about JIBE. Its what keeps me going, and pushing through the inland janky. Buggying at a soccer field with trashy wind has no comparison to a 5 mile stretch of beach with a constant clean wind. Two totally different mindsets. You think you enjoy the buggy now? Wait till you have no restrictions from wind, obstacles, or terrain. What is really going to accelerate you at the playa is all the skills you have gained from the struggling conditions of inland wind. Even though we cuss it, it is the best learning tool. Same from the opposite. If all one learns and knows is buggying constant clean wind, they would be destroyed on the first soccer field session from inland conditions IMHO.

Another humble suggestion for lufting/backstalling in the turns is to bring the kite up high, turn under the kite while the kite is turning, then drop it back down. Or, turn the kite ahead of the buggy. While the buggy is coming around, perform an exaggerated figure 8 keeping the lines tight. While the buggy is in the middle of coming around, you are already starting the upturn of the figure 8. If that makes sense. If timed right you will be heading on the proper course the same time the kite is coming out of the last bottom turn of the figure 8 restoring a little boost to get you going. In light winds its super easy to put slack in the lines by accident, especially in the turns. Like John said, each size reacts a little different.

As far as the AQR, Its a highly debatable topic. Many threads on here about it. When I put mine together, it was to help me overcome the fear of hooking in with fixed bridle kites. At the time, FB was all I had. With inland jank, it was more a pain in the ass then anything. Shifty winds would always collapse a traditional foil dropping it from the sky. You know whats involved with the kite after that....
Since my AQR, I've been bit by the single skin characteristics. More forgiving, and tons less lufting. Since that, I haven't re visited my AQR for inland winds, though I can see where it wouldn't be such a pain now with the Stars. The beach is a different story. Yes its a lot cleaner wind, but now your dealing with higher speeds where pilot error could get you hurt. The AQR is great for that. I am in my third year of buggying, and still learn something new every trip as does most everyone. We are all individuals with our own likes, dislikes, style, and comfort levels. Its what makes it so great. Immersing yourself in a large group of kiters such as Ivanpah is going to be mind blowing. Sorry for the ARQ sidetrack here.

Since we are talking pure jank. Here's my wind today. Forecast steady NE (which I can't fly anyway). Its been forecasted that way all day, but notice how the hour by hour actually comes to pass....... LMAO

Nice work Steve,... I'm a little late to the program, and there is nothing new for me to add. I agree with John on the turns, I've found that its pretty hard to make wide sweeping turns in light winds, you really have to crank the front wheel over and make the turn a quick one... it's even more fun when the wind is blowing harder because you can sling the back end around and power slide the cr@p outa these kites. ... lotsa fun, thanks for reminding me what its like in the buggy Steve.

John, I appreciate the words on the lines slackening causing the backward motion... I didn't realize that.

Thanks Spencer! I was doing some crazy power slides today. Wind kicked up to 12-18 mph with some nice gusts thrown in for good measure. Look for a combo 6m 12m P2 video later!

Writing this in flight home from San Diego where my family just took a vacation on the sea shore. Beyond a great deal else I got the chance to fly my 2.5, 3.2, and 4.0 NS3s static with my toes in the sand under some idealic on shore winds. Not sure on their strength but flags were flapping and my forearms were aching under the pull of the 4.0m. Wish I had thought to bring my 8.5m because I didn't have quite enough grunt to scud with the 4.0m.

All I can say is WOW! This was my first time flying a traction kite under ideal wind conditions. The Stars were angelic, almost eerily smooth. I can only imagine how it would feel to Park 'n Ride with a bug with those sorts of winds.

Last night I flew my 3.2m in the last of the day's light with the winds slowly ebbing. She stayed aloft but just got slower and slower as I swung her back and forth like a metronome. Talk about a peaceful easy feeling.

A toast to all my fellow Star enthusiasts; these are wonderful kites that we love. :karate:

Nice one, Steve. I hang out every year for my Sandy Point and Kingston trips so I can go and play in those smooth onshore winds. And no sheep #@%$#! to dodge all the time!

Sounds very nice!

Man I love checking the forum and seeing the Born thread at the top and lit up yellow!!! Glad you got to test a little more Steve. Yes, clean wind will ruin you...

So I FINALLY had some seat time yesterday... SUPER light wind, but enough to get moving, albeit slow, but moving. The stars and moon and Jupiter and Saturn all aligned... the kids were staying at the in-laws for the night, wifey gave the all clear and there was an inkling of wind, so after work I went a-kitin'

Wind was in the 6-8 mph range, and I had up the 7m as usual,... it wasn't constant movement at all, nor was it fast (the 8 mph gust got me moving, but most constant was a 2 mph crawl) but it sure was nice to be riding.

Its always a learning experience and I learned several things yesterday: A. if you work in the light wind to keep the kite moving forward, it won't do the backwards thing that the NS's are notorious for,... so use gravity to your advantage... downturn people, downturn... B. even moving 2 mph can be fun if its been 2 months since you've been in the buggy... C. In light wind, surface really makes an astounding difference... rolling over the bare spots in the grass was easy,... hitting the grass was almost like walking through mud... D. Moving upwind is a lost cause in light air,... and finally E. (most important lesson) I really, really, really NEED a 10m.

Go a 12.5m Spencer :D

I went out after work as well. I think it was Wednesday or Thursday. Same exact experience as you had Spencer. If I would have been on a hard flat surface or had a larger kite, I would have been consistently moving.

The bad thing was that it had been high teens all day, but by the time I could buggy the winds had dropped.

Glad you got out Spencer!!

Quote: Originally posted by John Holgate

Go a 12.5m Spencer :D

Hey John, I hadn't considered a 12.5 too seriously before, but maybe we should give that some more serious consideration. Do you think it would be to large of gap between the 7 and 12.5? I know you haven't flown a 12.5 but is there much overlap with the 7 and 10?

John, you're clearly the expert among us chickens and I would be most interested in your response.

I for one would think there would be a pretty big gap between 7 and 12.5. Unfortunately, I think the gap will be decent between 7 and 10. One shortcoming (if it is fair to say this about the NASA Stars as they are FB) is that their wind range per kite as a safe buggy engine is somewhat limited, at least inland with gusty winds (I've got zero experience buggying with them in clean wind). In my limited buggy experience going from one NS3 size to the next during the same session, I found a pretty strong difference in pull switching between my 2.5, 3.2, and 4.0m. HUGE jump up to my 8.5m, but that is to be expected as it is more than twice the area of the 4.0m.

Memory serves that John has a custom made 10m but not the 8.5 or 12.5m. Isn't that right John? For what it's worth I may eventually be able to provide some feedback on the relative traction of the larger NS3s. I already have the 8.5m, have the 10.0m en route via DHL , and the 12.5m on order getting sewn in the Czech Republic right now. We all know what a delight DHL is but I should have the suite of 8.5, 10.0, and 12.5m NS3s in my hands eventually this Fall. Hopefully I'll get a light wind day when I can put all three of them up in the same session and take some GoPro footage. I'll report back into this thread when that day finally comes.

Dang Steve!... Single skin or die, eh?

I'm excited to hear your thoughts on all of the above.... though I hear word on the street is that the gap from 7m-10m is reasonable and that its pretty reasonable to skip over the 8.5m. Though my 8.6m RII was my favorite and most used size.

Spencer - I certainly hope you are right! It would make reasonable sense when thinking about kite areas in relative versus absolute terms. A 5m Star is 100% larger than a 2.5m while a 10m is only 18% bigger than an 8.5m and only 43% bigger than a 7m, so what you are saying makes sense.

For you, Worst Fears Realized is getting CBVOBE'd again; I totally get it. For me it's side pull, having been dragged sideways into a goal post at top speed with my 8.5 NS3. :o

Yeah, the logic is there. I actually heard it from Sean, who heard it from John, and I'm pretty sure John is the best authority on that.

I'm looking forward to the coming fall because the summer wind has really been junk. Fall is typically much better and then Spring is THA BOMB. I'm looking forward to experiencing that absolute Nasa Star bliss again!

Remind me of the C and B,... I know the rest "Vertical Out of Buggy Experience"... typically we just say OBE, but I can't remember your additions to it.

On the beach, the 7m lets me buggy down to about 7 - 8 knots. But the 10m only goes down to 6 knots and if I wanted to buggy consistently in sub 8 knots, I'd really like the 12.5m. Now that's in clean wind, in gusty wind I'm reluctant to put even the 10m up as a gust of 12 -13 knots will have you going sideways fast and reaching for the depower.

If I was contemplating between a 10 or 12.5 atm, I'd wait and see how Steve feels about the differences between the bigger Nasa's and also compared to the 12.5m Peak 2. (geez, did I just say that on a Born-kite thread??) My winds are moderately cold and dense so my 'knots' could be a little different to yours. Even putting up the 7m at home, I like to make sure the wind is reasonably steady.

I think the smallest difference between any of my kites is between the 7m and the 10m. On the other end of the scale, there's a huge jump between the 2.5m and the 4m which is why I first asked Steffen to make a 3.2m.

@ Spencer: CBVOBE = Code Brown Vertical Out of Buggy Experience :o

@ John: The whole clean versus janky wind consideration is certainly EXTREMELY relevant when it comes to our beloved Stars. The gust factor does have me more than a little nervous about lofting the 10 and 12.5s once I get them. I got some nice buggying in today under gusty conditions. I put my 8.5m NS3 in the air first. Took two laps and promptly put it away after getting vertically elevated about 3-6 inches in my seat as I was turning with the kite high and tight. I pulled out my 12m P2 and harnessed the same wind for the next hour. Would have loved a 9m P2.... Yikes, I mentioned Peaks on this thread too! :D

I've said it before, Steve but this is also the advantage of the race style buggy rails like on my Stinger... when the gusts hit you, the rails help hold you in adding to the security, so you either slide the whole buggy sideways, it gets translated to forward movement or the whole bug gets a little air (only about how much you felt yourself coming out of your seat) which happened a few times with my 8.6m RII... its kinda fun. The amazing part to me about the Stars is how they translate those gust; a foil would be more likely to be ripped out of your hands whereas the the Stars create just a sudden burst of power that is much more smooth. I feel I can handle gusty MUCH better with the Stars... Much less OH SH!# moments.

Oh yeah,... Code Brown

Hey, I've got a terrible idea. I could stop getting a little bit lifted by just strapping myself in.... :evil:

THIS JUST IN!

New great video footage of the LongStar, courtesy of Steffen. I got an email from his this AM alerting me to the new footage. Good stuff!

Quote: Originally posted by Windstruck

Hey, I've got a terrible idea. I could stop getting a little bit lifted by just strapping myself in.... :evil:

By all means

I have found limitations. I was using my number 2 spot that is a soccer complex near one of my customers that is a little further away and usually my weekday spot. It is bordered by trees and not fields. Wind is much more turbulent and I find I sometimes lose air and crash very occasionally (yes even with stars or peak) If this is the case then I would advise against hot wire as it is much more difficult to relaunch. My spot surrounded by fields is still turbulent but I rarely lose wind all together so once flying, the kite doesn't come down at all unless I make a gross error. I've thought about combating the hard relaunch with hot wire my making a very very minimal harness comprised of a belt and biner to get things situated quickly, launch, land, launch again from the buggy. More likely, I will only use the hotwire at my choice spot or when leaves fall making both spots equal again. Sorry that was a mouthful

Sean - all good points. I've been tempted but think I will stay away from the sort of hot wiring you've been playing with. My conditions are most certainly akin to your #2 spot as just described.

An idea I've had (maybe not a good one) would be to attach simple left and right webbing straps across my lap that in turn attach to the side rails. These straps would have a small Velcro strip attached to them such that the two straps would lay on top of each other (not doubled back through a ring or anything like that). I thought of sewing a couple of fist sized rings of the webbing material onto the top strap to act as quick release handles if I had to get at it in a hurry.

The idea here would be to provide enough resistance to keep me from being lifted vertically but not enough to keep me trapped if I turtle the darn thing or get yanked by the kite in such a way that it would be better on my body to get OBE'd than staying fastened in.

Spencer and others have called out the side rail design of various buggies as being nice such that they sort of hold you in during lifts like this. My Bigfoot seat is the simple sling seat of course that offers no such hip-hugging benefit.

Thoughts anybody?

Yeah...get a mahoosive buggy with a big a55 deep seat. I heard this English dude made some nice ones. His name slipped my mind but he loves a bit of spinach...

Hey Paul, quit feeding my beast; can't hardly keep it on the chain as it is!

Seriously Steve, The difference with a buggy that you sit "in" rather than "on" is amazing. Gives you much more confidence to really push it. Not just false confidence either, it really is so much safer having those high side rails and a wide axle. Worth keeping half an eye open for something used down your neck of the woods. Not sure what you get stateside but you might be able to pick something up without dropping serious cash. Libre Dragster maybe.....? :evil:

Yeah,... ditto that, fo sho!

Geez... Friends like you who needs enemies?:evil:

I'm already on my second buggy having upgraded from a PL Folding to a PL Bigfoot. I drive a Ford Edge and as things stand now I can fold the back seats down and get the whole shooting match easily in the back (buggy in two parts, all kites, harness, pads, helmet, etc.).

I think I'd be looking in the rear view mirror at my second and final marriage if I sold the Bigfoot to buy an even bigger buggy and the tow rig to haul it around in! Best to leave (barely) good enough alone in that department.