Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

bladerunner quote "Especially with a big kite and you are being tea bagged. " Being tea bagged is no fun. just ask jared from subway now that he's in prison. I'll be here all week folks

Are we ever going to learn how to post quotes? Hmmmm? :moon:

sometimes it works out for me sometimes it doesn't

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms   hey all i will keep harness for non janky wind days but thinking about it the other day i flew my 2m whilst hooked in but i had kite killers on at same time!!.... surely thats not right as if had left kite go to killers (not that i have so far!) then brakes would of been on killers and harness would of been on power lines . i have read on here about kite killers and it seams to be a mix opinion You are correct. Kite killers are useless while hooked in. People who get too used to killers can make exactly that mistake and let go hooked in. THIS is why I talked about getting used to hooking and unhooking by reflex memory. Also why I warned that unhooking under a big load can be almost impossible. ( for a little twerp like me at least ) . Pulling in and down to release is really hard when overpowered. Especially with a big kite and you are being tea bagged. To get around this people use a complicated pulley and QR combination. The best thing to do IMHO ( besides going depower ) is to avoid hooking in when you are pushing it and or overpowered using FB kites. Kite killers have their own set of problems. There is a link to a very good old post about this in PrussiS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s recent thread. Once again, using them in overpowered situations can turn bad. AFTER CHOOSING AN APPROPRIATE LOCATION learning to control your kite in an emergency is always what you want to learn. If you can't get the kite to and down the edge then letting go of one handle is an emergency option. That and letting go completely should be OK if your location allows room down wind. The price may be messed up lines or damage to the kite but both are less important than staying alive.

i have been using killers so far and have only used to try them out,i am getting a lot confident so i might stop using killers,i will try your let go off one handle bladerunner next time i am out.

i have had some over power moments in my janky winds which have taken me by surprise but i have managed to fly out off the power,also getting better at feeling my gusts coming and flying to edge and wait till gone.

i had a little time today so i popped out but gave up as winds were awful! weather in general here in uk is so chop and change currently but i so long to fly in some clean wind

Getting a sense for what is coming wind wise and knowing to get to the edge ( and down to one side ) is a HUGE step forward!

With what you are learning you will be shocked at how good you really are when you get some clean wind to work with!

Letting one handle go usually ends up with a real line mess and potential damage to your kite. ( not likely damage in a controlled situation ) If you try it do so when you have time to untangle things.

thanks for that bladerunner,i do feel like i am learning a lot but in a really frustrating way! it certainly will be nice to fly in some clean wind and i am sure and hope you are right when that time comes!

i might just try the one handle drop in light winds to get muscle memory going for if i ever get caught out then and thanks for pointing out the damage side as certainly do not want to damage my kites unnecessarily.

i hope you are getting your own flying and buggy time in ?

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms

thanks for that bladerunner,i do feel like i am learning a lot but in a really frustrating way! it certainly will be nice to fly in some clean wind and i am sure and hope you are right when that time comes! i might just try the one handle drop in light winds to get muscle memory going for if i ever get caught out then and thanks for pointing out the damage side as certainly do not want to damage my kites unnecessarily. i hope you are getting your own flying and buggy time in ?

Headed out soon. The whole weekend looks good!
Got out last weekend for the 1st buggy run since Fall SOBB. :wee:

thats good to hear your out shortly and i hope you have a great time as i am sure you will

thanks again for all your help,advice and tips so far,i do have another question but i will keep that for another time as i do not want to disturb your time.

hey bladerunner i hope you had great day yesterday and have another lined up for today?

as mentioned i do want to go do a buggy lesson at some point this year but while i am flying static is there anything i can do or learn which will help when i do get to sit in a buggy?

reading forecast today it looks great,10mph this morning building up to 17mph with no gusts until gusty later.sadly thou sitting here drinking tea watching trees movement you get nice firm tree movement for couple of minutes then nothing at all!!!!

OK session yesterday. My local park is still a bit muddy.

Real nice session today. Wind was low but the direction that we can run the long way through the park. the 18 meter Phantom was the perfect weapon! I love a big kite day with steady winds! :D

Work on doing the Down Turns and big long power stroke through the window. A VERY valuable method for turning in the buggy with low winds down the road.

Get used to sitting down on your butt while controlling the kite. Once on your butt, if the wind is strong enough, use the power from diving the kite to stand up. With the kite at zenith rock it slightly in one direction. Then dive it the other direction into the center of the window and across for a power boost. THAT is sort of the motions you go through to get going in the buggy.

If you are energetic combine the kite dive lifting you to your feet with running a short way across wind. You will hopefully learn how to bring the kite back up KEEPING TENSION ON THE FRONT LINES with this excessive.

sounds like you had a great time bladerunner but 18 metre...gulp!! i really can not imagine what 18m must be like,i am shocked and amazed by my 5.5 bullet in single figure winds!!

thanks for the tips for me to try whilst flying static,i seam to stand flying my 2m and sit when do so with 4m/5.5m.i have been using power on way across window to get up from sitting but will give it a go on a dive.

We were all there at one point!

Your post takes me back to the 1st time I took my 4.5m Bullet out. I was SO SCARED of that kite. I remember driving there with hair standing up on my arms. I wasn't sure if I was super excited or scared ! Whatever it was, I loved the rush!

Don't be too impressed by 18m. The kite is an Arc style of kite and it's " projected area " is much less than 18m. That kite in steady low winds is a gentle giant. I actually feel very safe under it in those conditions. It all changes when you get in motion. I needed every bit of the sail to keep moving with a buggy.

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

We were all there at one point! Your post takes me back to the 1st time I took my 4.5m Bullet out. I was SO SCARED of that kite. I remember driving there with hair standing up on my arms. I wasn't sure if I was super excited or scared ! Whatever it was, I loved the rush! Don't be too impressed by 18m. The kite is an Arc style of kite and it's " projected area " is much less than 18m. That kite in steady low winds is a gentle giant. I actually feel very safe under it in those conditions. It all changes when you get in motion. I needed every bit of the sail to keep moving with a buggy.

MOOms - What is said here at the end is the important "aha" moment that you just haven't had yet (emphasis on yet). Everything changes with motion. The amount of force you absorb and transfer into motion is impressive; was higher forces than you think is happening when flying static. I went for about five years Prism kites and rally enjoyed the workout it took to resist the forces with my seat meat anchored to the ground and my heels dug in to the grass. I still remember the marketing blurb on the 5m Prism: "stump pulling power". There were days when it felt like that.

Now go out and get a buggy and find out what we are talking about! :cool2:

i am sure that the 18m is impressive to watch.i flew my 5.5 bullet the other day and walkers going by were saying wow look at size of it!

i must admit first time i flew the bullet my first thought was "sod that,stick it back on ebay!" now having flown it few times i do like it in a very cautious way as i am sure that could really bite you if got wrong!

so far out of my three 4 lines i think i like the beamer 4m most.i like its slower speed and the other week i was sitting on floor leaning back trying to get feet to grip wet grass and pulling it good and hard.great fun!

yes windstruck i do want to try buggy soon,i have found a beach which is a couple of hours away that does it there with lessons.so do bit more tidying up of my flying then get down there for a go which i am sure will lead to MANY questions!

hi all,

i have a week work shut down at end of may so i decided to go for a buggy lesson at some point on the time off.when i book lesson i might go down day before and do some flying in hopefully cleaner winds than my current conditions.

i have been flying in janky winds (again!) and feel a lot more comfortable and in control now.i was flying my 4m beamer in the strong gusts and felt in control and was playing with power on the down strokes and across window as suggested by bladerunner (many thanks) and just in general was happy with my control and i will get more time in before buggy lesson.

i hope everyone is getting out enjoying and i am very thankful for everyones help and i look forward to asking questions on a moving front soon!

You will be surprised how the hard work of janky wind management pays off once you hit clean wind!

Hope your session is as good as my first one. I was able to attend IBX this year and all the great people there helped to make it an awesome event for me and everybody else. I just read through all the posts on your learning curve and can't wait to hear about your first bugging experience. Good luck and good winds

Quote: Originally posted by ssayre

Quote: Originally posted by Kokopelli Kiter   Quote: Originally posted by ssayre   remember with no wind, all kites have the same power Not true. https://vimeo.com/38891773 I knew I would get called out on that.

I would like to see more about flying with no wind. Welding god sure makes it look easy. I finally had a good green field to try it in the other day and what do you think? Did anything like that video happen. NO. Got to keep on figuring it all out I quess.

Quote: Originally posted by Anthonyshopguy

I was able to attend IBX this year

Dang Anthony, I was there too (Tuesday-Thursday). Sorry we didn't meet up. I most certainly plan on going next year as well.

thanks 3shot,yes i really can not wait for some clean wind to play with!!

hi Anthonyshopguy and it sure has been a learning curve for me this year as at christmas i didnt even own a kite and had only ever flown single line kites as a kid so i am very happy and very grateful for everyones help on this forum.

i did read up on the IBX event which looks amazing,just wish there was or is a similar event over here in the uk.

um buggy time! i threw a cheeky bid on ebay for a peter lynn competition buggy the other day which was accepted so i now have a really clean buggy!!

big question is do i still do a lesson or do self teach option?

kites i own are version 6 hq beamers 2m&4m and a flexifoil bullet 5.5m,guessing my 2m is too small and my 5.5m is to big to learn on which just leaves my 4m beamer,would it be worth me getting a 3m beamer?

you should buy a 3m just because you know you want to and youll probably go nutz if you dont (i told you in Dec)
boy your gonna like the beach, clean winds salt air...i say figure it out on your own its not water thats a different story
might take a little extra time but put the $$$ to the 3m

Quote: Originally posted by m00ms

big question is do i still do a lesson or do self teach option?

Congratulations on picking up the buggy! You're done for now.

Lessons are a superb luxury that I'm sure most of us never had (I sure didn't). Take a gander at this:

http://youtu.be/in-WegBa6iw

There, now you've had a lesson. Good luck!

A lesson would propel you through the learning curve in quick time. We don't have that luxury with buggies over here.

If you don't take lessons do yourself a favour and still get to the ocean and clean winds to learn. If the cost of lessons costs as much as a couple of nights hotel near the beach it's a tough call? If you go to a beach that is frequented by other pilots and they see you have worked on your kite skills odds are they will work with you?

Here is an important tip for once you get in motion: Don't fly the kite back past zenith when in motion!!!! You will get away with it at slow speeds with low winds but get moving a good speed and or have strong winds and you will get sent up and out of your buggy. An Out Of Buggy Experience, OBE. You will have a bad habit taken forward from static flying of doing this. DON'T ! We fly the kite in a sine wave ~ along one side of the window NOT figure 8s in motion.

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner

We fly the kite in a sine wave ~ along one side of the window NOT figure 8s in motion.

Not all of us Brother Blade ! Some of us fly little kites in big wind,and you gotta work it !!! Loops, backloops,loop the loops , whatever it takes to keep that blur in motion and off the deck. One of my favorite tactics is to throw a loop and get a good pulse of energy and when it starts to fade throw one the opposite direction. I could do that all day long!

mOOms on the OBE concept. It is real and can be very dangerous. My baliwick has mostly been snow kiting. Let me tell a little story as I'm sure most of the people on this site have similar. Just got my first real kite 11m escape LEI depower. Was crazy to fly it. Had spent maybe 3 hours static flying. Went up for a cross country ski trip with friends and just could not resist bringing the kite. When my friends saw what I had brought they encouraged me to give it a spin. Since the cross country area and my now regular flying area were only a few miles apart we decided to just move the whole group over to watch the fun. I had a good tutorial video that I had watched at least 20 times and thought I was ready. Hmm Maybe not. After a few runs across the snow I felt braver and tried to go a little faster. Oh remember what I went up there to do originally, cross country ski. Skinny, no edging ability, tooth picks. Well there's a wonderful term called warp speeding I hope you get to experience it some day. Basically the apparent wind also increases with speed so the faster you go the more apparent wind the kite see' s on and on and faster and faster. All of a sudden the trees that were a half mile away were 300 feet away and I needed to make a quick decision. One fall down, nope two do a sliding turn nope, three "and here's the point of the story" fly the kite in the other direction. Everybody that is reading this KNOWS what happened next. Well the kite did what I told it and flew in the other direction but I continued in my same direction at maybe 20 MPH for at least a couple of seconds before physics took over. Kite lines have almost no stretch so I was swung in the most beautiful arc you could imagine. My skinny skies flapping in the wind, at least that's what my friends saw. I was swung well over Ten feet in the air and dropped like a rock. End of story, no not quite, in my panic I did not release the power bar which reduces the KITES power dramatically. So instead I had a yard sale which basically means one ski here another there it even ripped my helmet off before I stopped being dragged by a friend who jumped on me to stop me. At that time I tried to release the kite but was too tangled for the release to work. Thank God the wind eased off and I got things back under control. Legs OK check, arms not broken, check, head hurting check. I now laugh when I tell this story and my friends still laugh about it to this day. IT COULD HAVE BEEN MUCH WORSE. Moral. Hmm have somebody that can call an ambulance if needed, ask for help if there are people buggying they most likely will give you a hand especially if you can show some good static skills. If still feeling uncomfortable pay for a lesson or two.. I spent more in lessons in the water in Costa Rica then I have on KITES to this day and I did not feel it was wasted. Got to go to sleep hope all the people who are reading this post have a good laugh but maybe take a grain of caution away also. Ps no lessons on Buggying at IBX JUST GOT IN AND FLEW. hmmmm any mistakes: yes flipped buggy over onto myself, not OBE, just too strong a turn, wrapped lines around axial and broke one, and had an absolute blast. Thanks Bobby for inviting me see you next year.


And new kite in the mail 12m Ranger thanks for the advice feyd.

thanks guys for all your tips.

abkayak: i do remember you saying to get a 3m back in december but i really was not ready for that then as i was shocked by 2m at first! really can see me getting a 3m beamer to make the set up (tart eh!)

windstruck: thanks for the video like,i have watched that before but will watch again as it feels a lot more relevant now i have a buggy!

bladerunner:i was thinking same as you on lesson giving a good head start learning boost,thinking of going to the area for couple of days so i can do some static flying first then do lesson and finish off buggying on my own while the lesson is fresh in my mind.

Anthonyshopguy: really sorry to read of your incident but glad to hear you was/are ok and that it didnt put you off.

Quote: Originally posted by WELDNGOD

Quote: Originally posted by Bladerunner   We fly the kite in a sine wave ~ along one side of the window NOT figure 8s in motion. Not all of us Brother Blade ! Some of us fly little kites in big wind,and you gotta work it !!! Loops, backloops,loop the loops , whatever it takes to keep that blur in motion and off the deck. One of my favorite tactics is to throw a loop and get a good pulse of energy and when it starts to fade throw one the opposite direction. I could do that all day long!

You are bang on. I was going to mention loops. It's important to note that you are looping in the direction of travel. Try that loop like a static figure 8 , passing over zenith and you go OBE.

the chances of you showing up on that beach flying a bit and not breaking out that buggy and giving it a go on your own are slim to none.....w/ none the favorite
and thats why you hang out w/ us

Quote: Originally posted by abkayak

the chances of you showing up on that beach flying a bit and not breaking out that buggy and giving it a go on your own are slim to none.....w/ none the favorite and thats why you hang out w/ us

I hope your experience is totally awesome at the beach. Good winds

abkayak you are very very possibly right about having buggy with me and not trying it out!! i have a few busy weekends coming up so best will be static local flights so sadly buggy will collect dust till towards the end of may!

i have just ordered a beamer 3m which by all accounts will be with me tomorrow so hopefully get to fly it at somepoint over weekend coming.

being a kayak paddler myself i have to ask if you also paddle going by your profile name?

thanks Anthonyshopguy i do hope my beach time is great fun as i am sure it will be and i hope manage to pilot the buggy well

Quote: Originally posted by Anthonyshopguy

mOOms on the OBE concept. It is real and can be very dangerous. My baliwick has mostly been snow kiting. Let me tell a little story as I'm sure most of the people on this site have similar. Just got my first real kite 11m escape LEI depower. Was crazy to fly it. Had spent maybe 3 hours static flying. Went up for a cross country ski trip with friends and just could not resist bringing the kite. When my friends saw what I had brought they encouraged me to give it a spin. Since the cross country area and my now regular flying area were only a few miles apart we decided to just move the whole group over to watch the fun. I had a good tutorial video that I had watched at least 20 times and thought I was ready. Hmm Maybe not. After a few runs across the snow I felt braver and tried to go a little faster. Oh remember what I went up there to do originally, cross country ski. Skinny, no edging ability, tooth picks. Well there's a wonderful term called warp speeding I hope you get to experience it some day. Basically the apparent wind also increases with speed so the faster you go the more apparent wind the kite see' s on and on and faster and faster. All of a sudden the trees that were a half mile away were 300 feet away and I needed to make a quick decision. One fall down, nope two do a sliding turn nope, three "and here's the point of the story" fly the kite in the other direction. Everybody that is reading this KNOWS what happened next. Well the kite did what I told it and flew in the other direction but I continued in my same direction at maybe 20 MPH for at least a couple of seconds before physics took over. Kite lines have almost no stretch so I was swung in the most beautiful arc you could imagine. My skinny skies flapping in the wind, at least that's what my friends saw. I was swung well over Ten feet in the air and dropped like a rock. End of story, no not quite, in my panic I did not release the power bar which reduces the KITES power dramatically. So instead I had a yard sale which basically means one ski here another there it even ripped my helmet off before I stopped being dragged by a friend who jumped on me to stop me. At that time I tried to release the kite but was too tangled for the release to work. Thank God the wind eased off and I got things back under control. Legs OK check, arms not broken, check, head hurting check. I now laugh when I tell this story and my friends still laugh about it to this day. IT COULD HAVE BEEN MUCH WORSE. Moral. Hmm have somebody that can call an ambulance if needed, ask for help if there are people buggying they most likely will give you a hand especially if you can show some good static skills. If still feeling uncomfortable pay for a lesson or two.. I spent more in lessons in the water in Costa Rica then I have on KITES to this day and I did not feel it was wasted. Got to go to sleep hope all the people who are reading this post have a good laugh but maybe take a grain of caution away also. Ps no lessons on Buggying at IBX JUST GOT IN AND FLEW. hmmmm any mistakes: yes flipped buggy over onto myself, not OBE, just too strong a turn, wrapped lines around axial and broke one, and had an absolute blast. Thanks Bobby for inviting me see you next year. And new kite in the mail 12m Ranger thanks for the advice feyd.

Man, have we ever all been there. There is nothing quite like your first OBE. Mine was on grass in a buggy with a 12m Peak-2 in the air. Utter and complete pilot error as I can now see in retrospect. At the time I wanted to coin a new term, a CBOBE, short for Code Brown......

At IBX this year I almost OBE'd for the first time in about a year. I was cruising along minding my own business and completely lost in my own (happy) thoughts. Utah Tami went screaming by coming up behind me (as she is apt to do since she rides so darn much faster than me) and nearly startled me out of my socks I was so surprised. Lost complete control of the kite (4m Peak2) and things started to happen pretty quickly. Came to my senses and the kite was behind me. Yikes! It had gotten there in a hurry but it's quickness was also what saved me because I was able to get it pointed forward before being plucked. The playa is rock hard akin to 40wt sandpaper and it would have gone differently from my CBOBEs on grass when I was starting out.

So... Respect the kite and keep the kite forward of zenith when moving quickly. The advanced riders of course can loop, figure-8, etc. MOOms - keep it simple at first. :karate: