Looking for the general concensus.....should one fly with kite killers or no?? I'm new to big 4 line foils having only flown 1.2 and 1.5 meter 2 lines...i have aquired a 4.5m and wondering if its a good idea to fly[purchase] a set of killers?

Is the sky blue :dunno: ....

So i guess the answer is NO because it's low clouds and 30mph winds here....lol

Seriously...i've read pros and cons of both and want opinions [good or bad]

This can be a heated topic, and everyone is committed to their position. I wear them except on the rare docile situation where I KNOW nothing surprising is going to happen. Ironically, this is when the wind is low and I have one of my largest fixed bridles up. Smaller kites with less predictable winds dictate them for me. Gusty winds where a smaller safer kite won't have me powered at all in the lower winds make me get a larger size out which could put me over the edge if the gust is unusually heavy for observed conditions. The kite killers let me have the confidence that my kite won't drift away for hundreds of yards into a roadway or power lines. I don't fly close to these things but close enough that a drifting kite could make it that far. Others say you should be able to fly your way out of problems and either they are much better pilots than I am or don't have conditions as bad as I can get or both. They might not want to be as powered up as I like. So there's one opinion for you.

YES, use KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s and as you learn and get more educated in kites and especially in the area of "hurt" and "I didn't think it was that windy", you will be appreciative of the fact that you are a member of the "I'm glad I had my KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s on" group. Better safe than sorry. Not only is it better and safer for you, but the other people around and down wind of you.
Just my opinion.

I have never ran into a person who was against using them? Maybe i missed the posts. I've seen them used, and have used them many-a-time. You know yourself, and if you plan to take yourself to the limits, and expect crashing every once in awhile (which you should) then you will be using the killers. Without the killers you will be chasing down the kite as it flies downwind, with nothing attached but handles.

True that....never thought about chasing the kite, not my idea of fun...

just use them... period!

About the time your kite takes off and a few miles away an blankets some poor sap's window and you cause a 52 car pile-up and the world you know ends!... lol sorry too much coffee this morning.. haha run-ons, lol

They are cheap, and they'll save you a lot of headaches... the only time some guys dont use them are in the buggy, or on the board... but even then, something can be rigged up to save your kite in the event of a bail

The dumb part is i can't find a set for sale here in Ontario, Canada so i can fly on the weekend.....

Quote:

Originally posted by Tonka The dumb part is i can't find a set for sale here in Ontario, Canada so i can fly on the weekend.....

make a set! :wee:

Imagine this:

You are out flying your kite on the beach enjoying the day with your kite killers on. Your doing loops and really getting into it You loop the kite don't get it all the way around and it hits the ground........right in front of someone in a buggy doing about 35mph. your kite gets snagged on the buggy he tries to stop but is having a little problem because your kite is all over him. now comes the important part. If you don't have kite killers on you let go of the kite, or better said the handles get torn out of your hands. you both yell at each other about whos fault it is, and the you buy a new kite.

Or

You have kit killers on and start to realize that you are about to go for a ride. The lines get tight your wrists start to get pulled out of thier sockets and you do a superman (this of course happens in about 1/10 of a second)
If your like the guy that I saw this happen to, the ambulance comes they pack your very swollen wrists in ice and rush you off to the next hospital and you don't even get to yell at the other guy about whos fault it was.
IMO you should never attach yourself to a kite without a proper safetly that can be released with one hand in a very short time.
I know if this guy had been wearing a harness he probably would have also not had time to pull the safety but I'll take a yank from a harness over a yank on my wrists anytime.

Quote:

Originally posted by Krohn1999 Imagine this: etc...

That is so small of a chance... my kite killers get used about once a week... you have control over where your kite goes (for the most part)

You dont have control over a nasty gust... id rather be able to dump the power of my kite in an instant... To me it just seems very wreckless not to wear killers...

Nobody in Vancouver BC uses kitekillers. They are not a safety device for you or bystanders. They are a device to retain your kite if you let go of the handles. If you think you might not be able hang on to your kite, do not launch it. Set up a smaller kite or say "I'll wait for things to calm down a bit."
People say they give them confidence to fly larger kites. Shots of tequila give me more confidence, does this make them a safety device?
I used to love 'em, then I learned the ways kite killers are dangerous.
S

>>I used to love 'em, then I learned the ways kite killers are dangerous.

Please elaborate or were you referring to a false sense of security?

ATB,
Sam

how does the thought of watching your kite flying/floating/rolling/drifting towards/across/onto/over a roadway make you feel?
how about snagging a barbwire fence or tree or house or powerline or telephone pole or soccer/football goal or whatever?
how about having the handles torn from your hand in unexpected gust and smashing into someones teeth at about 80-90 mp/h?
i've seen most of these things happen or nearly happen.
i started wearing them after watching my handles leave my hands (i held on as long as i could trying to 'save it' so they were super loaded) like bullets and covering quite a distance. lucky no-one was on target path.
i'm sure there can be occasions where KKs may be little more than a PIA but i'm sure the ratio is heavily in favor of wearing KKs especially when new to the sport.
like others have said, if really calm, and when i'm flying solo, i may not fret if i pull a kite out that doesn't have them already attached.
if others are around i prefer they wear KKs so i don't eat their handles or try on their kite's lines for fit.
*whenever i do not wear them i always have a "hope i don't snag(have to fix or replace) a kite today. not fully concentrating on task at hand
@#$t happens, i'v seen it.

i 'was' a crotch-rocketeer a time ago. i started with some good gear but always had a voice in head playing "hope i don't lay down here and leave a pound or two of skin with it".
i got some one piece race leathers and riding immediately got way more fun and less voices in back of mind.
comes down to your own peace of mind and what it's worth to you.

wow i guess there is an argument here lol! I always just thought everyone wore them, always...

I can see both sides i guess... but man... i'd never fly without 'em

Try just letting go of one handle if you cannot control your kite. It will flag out right away and you only have to get the tangles out if one side.

I believe if you only feel confident wearing Kite Killers you should really think about what you are doing, because in the back of your mind you know it's not right!

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf >>I used to love 'em, then I learned the ways kite killers are dangerous. Please elaborate or were you referring to a false sense of security? ATB, Sam

It is a very long story but I nearly took a stunt kiter's head off. If I had not been wearing killers my handles would have flown past him harmlessly. Because I had killers on he was trapped in the bite of the line and about ten feet of line sawed at his neck. (For those who think they can turn their buggy fast enough to avoid such an incident remember that at 22 mph you will travel the length of your lines in less than 3 seconds.)
Fortunately, for me and every other Vancouver powerkiter, a bunch of other stunt kiters saw him trying to set up the "accident" and told him to quit being stupid.
Revpaul's points are almost all about your kite being saved. Flying handles are a bit of a problem, but the slow down pretty fast. They are way more of a problem if you have a snatch block and Witchard shackle attached.
Getting hit by a lose foil might scare you, but they are unlikely to scar you.
I suggest that new kiters tend to think they are a good idea. Long time kiters tend to think they are a very bad idea.
There are times when kite killers do not depower your kite. To be attached to an uncontrolled kite by your wrists is not fun. Somewhere on youtube there is a video demonstrating this point.
A video demonstrating why not to loop straps around your wrists.

Tonka save your money.
S

I grew out of mine once I learned how to fly a kite ! :bigok:

Don't let the fact you don't have kite killers stop you. If you have the right location picked out you should have enough space downwind to let go , if you HAVE to.

location is key.

you need a bit of room downwind, like 50-100m or so at first, more later. also more, maybe much more if there are obstacles down wind, ranging from taller trees to powerlines.

you need to have a lot of room around you that's easy to move around on. people who don't fly are worse than obstacles.

ALSO you need to be aware of everything around you while you're flying. don't focus on the kite too much, and check behind often. If you have really good hearing that helps, mine is cr@p and so i have to use my eyes.

with those two things you won't need them

it is true they can give beginners confidence in the beginning, and that some continue to use them, but the bigger the forces and speeds involved the riskier it is to be connected to the kite.

the scenarios above which invoke the more risk with kite killers involve buggies, for static flying they are more useful.

I would say get them, try them, judge for yourself. you should be able to make them easily. that way by the time you get your skills up to where KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s can be a liablity, you'll be able to make your own decision.

It's possible that I have outgrown KKs. I now have plenty of kites to cover any wind range and haven't let go of a kite in a long, long time. I had only let go two or three times anyhow. I just feel weird initially as I unroll a kite that doesn't have them attached. Like I left the house with no pants on. I feel as though I might as well put KKs on to kill one less distraction.
So I guess I really do not have a side on this issue. Sorry:wee:

kind'a like training wheel issue i guess
i'm old and still have them on all of my bikes
Paul

i was actually comparing this discussion to seatbelts in my head over lunch... lol

Those videos are interesting... both were doing something stupid anyway... the girl: too high of winds, too big of kite, and she looked like she had no clue what was going on ... killers or not, that situation had a bad ending anyway (lol see Peter lynn's blog posted at buggy beach! haha sorry)

The guy in the creek, same deal, too many bad factors going for him... too much power, and lots of things downwind from him... a creek, a bridge, a headache... and in the end he was attatched to the 'fly' lines, and not brake lines... and yes that is very stupid...it was kinda funny tho

If you are flying in the right/reccommended conditions, a kite, solely being flown on the brake lines... ie killed... doesnot produce enough pull to take you out... ive dumped my twister in winds 10mph over the rated range, and have had no problems getting it down safetly and not painfully, only being connected by the wrists...

That is your kite's only safety, why not use it? Same deal as seatbelts, they may cause the occasional incident... but for me the benefit outweighs the cons.... I've had zero instances where my killers would have hurt me, or anyone around me... tons of times, where if i lost the kite, many people would be affected... and to top it off, i'd rather suffer thru a wrist injury than cause a wreck downwind, put my kite in power lines, or affect anyone but me and give this sport a bad name around here...

Adding above... plus the one with the girl she was only wearing one killer, and obviously not far enough up the line for only one killer. Either two killers close to you or one killer far enough up the line to flag out the kite.

Those videos don't portray how kite killers fail, they portray how people fail at kite killers.

Ok I get the picture...maybe it might be safer to use them when flying a new kite or in high traffic areas. In an open field with no obstructions one could do without.

Someone mentioned making a set..what would be the simplest way to do it. Just want to be safe until I know how this kite behaves...I will be flying it in the proper areas and wind conditions but things can happen and I really like my life the way it is....lol

something strong and comfortable to go around your wrists. a bit of padding is good, but not too much.

then bungee to the brake lines a couple inches up from the handle. but not too floppy a bungee. you can use cord. don't use too much, just enough so you have full ruange of movement.

when you deploy, the handles will pop out of your hands, the more powered you are the harder the pop. there's a tiny bit of stretch in the lines and it releases very quickly.

you can get a decent yank on your arms, which why the padding is good. the killers go around the knuckly bit at your wrists, it's not the best place to take a hard sharp compression load, one of the reasons KK are not good for all occasions.

with 4.5 you should be safeas you deploy, unless you're really insane about the winds.

search for KK threads, you might have to make sure to go back a while, there are a couple threads back there with detailed instructions on where to place the KKs on the brakes, which is critical.

you need to set-up and deploy them a couple times, and possibly fine-tune them, but do deploy them a couple times until you're comfy with them and confident that they will work for you when used "in anger".

Yes, I agree. my opinon of KKs is mostly in favor of possibly saving a kite from damage.
i have only one decently sized area so:
i buggy in gusty/nasty/inland/gusty/gusty/gusty/nasty/ever changing direction winds.
i buggy too close to soccer/football/rugby goalposts/bleachers/grandstands/trees/houses/trees and football practice apparatus.
probably would be prudent not to buggy at all for me here but that isn't going to happen.
i did not use them at the start. it took a near miss incident to make me start using KKs. maybe it'll take something along the same lines to stop using them.

Paul

Quote:

Originally posted by revpaul i buggy in gusty/nasty/inland/gusty/gusty/gusty/nasty/ever changing direction winds. i buggy too close to soccer/football/rugby goalposts/bleachers/grandstands/trees/houses/trees and football practice apparatus. probably would be prudent not to buggy at all for me here but that isn't going to happen. i did not use them at the start. it took a near miss incident to make me start using KKs. maybe it'll take something along the same lines to stop using them. Paul

Sorry but that is exactly not the time to be using them, that is the time to be flying a kite that you have full control of or be looking for another spot.
Kite killers are not there to make bad conditions good!!

I wonder what it would be like to get yanked out the back of a buggy by my wrists because my kite got a little to close to the goal posts???

"Sorry but that is exactly not the time to be using them, that is the time to be flying a kite that you have full control of or be looking for another spot."
nothing to be sorry about, you're right but there is no other spot until crops are off so it's get used to it or stay home. wait, i do have an assortment of kites now.
coastal winds are 10 hours drive straight west.
"Kite killers are not there to make bad conditions good!!"
yep, KKs just there to keep money in my pocket. I don't like to $end kite away for repair$ or replace someone else's kite.
"I wonder what it would be like to get yanked out the back of a buggy by my wrists because my kite got a little to close to the goal posts???
i wonder too cuz it hasn't happened yet miracle?

Quote:

Originally posted by Krohn1999 I wonder what it would be like to get yanked out the back of a buggy by my wrists because my kite got a little to close to the goal posts???

lol, dude.. you do know killers go on the brake lines? I've never had a killed kite generate enough power to even make me take a step forward...(see above post about killing my twister in high winds) let alone get dragged or pulled out of a buggy?

i can see not wanting to dump a kite on a crowded beach when you are going 30mph... but then again you shouldnt be going 30 down a crowded beach... i can see all these negatives about killers, but if you take out at least one part of stupid out of any scenario.. the killers become way more effective... in every situation ive heard about killers.. someone was doing something they shouldnt...

Bottom line the sport we are in is dangerous... killers or no, we are at the mercy of the wind... and if the wind has it in for me on a given day, i'd take the wrath of the wind, and suffer the pain, over saving my a$$ to jepordize someone elses.... Noob or not, im not going to endanger anyone else, simply because i dont want to "wear my seatbelt."

I sell power tools... and i always smile just a little when a guy comes in, buys an electric grinder... and tells me how worthless the guards are. How they always get in your way. How anyone that uses a grinder more than a day will take the guard off. They cause more problems then they fix. yada yada yada... And as he leaves, he waves at me, and hes a few fingers shy of a full wave.... lousy safety features... lmao!

I use guards, and killers... And i'm really happy i do!

beamer bob was right --this is a heated topic--i figured everyone would be in favor of kks.......they have allowed me to let go without worrying about losing my kite and letting go has saved me MANY injuries.....so for me they are a kind of safety device--these stories of people getting hurt--some of them sound so stupid,i mean if youre flying that close to other people and objects,youre asking for an injury---some people have little if any common sense--i prefer to fly slightly overpowered and i havent ever come close to any issues with my kite killers--i suppose they could get caught in the buggy wheels........