I'm looking for arc in the 9-12m range to do some buggying. My leanings are towards the Scorpion or Phantom but as their availability seems low I'm getting more flexible.

FYI, Ricardo says his new 10m Scorpion stock is gone. I was so bummed. It seems I missed my chance for an awesome price on a new Scorp by just a few days. :-(

I have a line on a crispy RTF 10m Synergy for $600. It seems like a sweet deal, but would you buggy with a Synergy? I don't know if I'll ever see enough wind on the Florida coast to kite surf with a 10m Arc. As I don't yet kite board that seems highly speculative even if the price is good.

Philip

Hi Phillip,

Sorry you missed out on the Scorp. I've had a blast on mine. It's great with the board and the bug.
Looks like everyone is getting their bids in early for the older PL's. Perhaps on the assumption that the Charger is going to have a lot of folks updating quivers?
I'll let you know if I come across anything.

Mel

just curious what are your winds like?

do you do more boarding than buggying or vice versa?

between a SyN 12 and 10 isnt much ... if having a 12m means you could use it on the water as well for your conditions i'd go with the 12m and adjust trim.

Phantom points better upwind in the water due to the A/R but the Syn goes upwind nicely............................should be the same on land although Ive never flown my 15 on land.......................

IMO, the 13m Venom is the best all rounder of any arc Ive flown

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites just curious what are your winds like? do you do more boarding than buggying or vice versa? between a SyN 12 and 10 isnt much ... if having a 12m means you could use it on the water as well for your conditions i'd go with the 12m and adjust trim.

I do only buggying. I hope to board eventually, but I want to fill in my buggying quiver first.

As to my winds, I almost never measure them. reviewing the Beaufort scale I'd say the good winds I get to fly in are Beaufort 3 or 8-12 MPH. I just know I usually buggy with a home-built 5m FB kite. That kite is now flying poorly--probably stretched. Having tasted the Arc-flavor of the depower koolaid I do not want to pursue FB at this time. Dean--who also buggies, is about my size and lives here in Gainesville--says to get a 10m Arc.

I looked at the projected area of the 10m and 12m Synergy vs the 10m Scorp and see what you mean. The 12m Syn is not much bigger than a 10m Scorp.

I bought a 16 Scorpion and it is a lot to buggy with. I had fun, but any attempt to power it up started the backend sliding. I really want the ability to dial in the power I want. With Dean's 10m Phantom the control bar is like a throttle. The acceleration when I sheet in is delicious. Dumping the power when I sheet out is a great comfort.

I have added pig tails to the 16m scorp to get me more depower, but have not yet had a chance to try them.

I buggy with my 16m Scorpion all the time, it definitely likes little more wind (15 mph +). When you spend the time and get all the strap setting to where they feel best for you'll be very happy.
I haven't had a chance to fly it against a Phantom, but I find the Scorpion is pretty quick and has no problem running out front in the window.
My only other Arc is a 18M Guerilla, which flies in low winds no problem, but I could turn the Scorpion three times in one turn with the beast, but the float is incredible.

Quote:

Originally posted by pbc Quote: Originally posted by ripsessionkites just curious what are your winds like? do you do more boarding than buggying or vice versa? between a SyN 12 and 10 isnt much ... if having a 12m means you could use it on the water as well for your conditions i'd go with the 12m and adjust trim. I do only buggying. I hope to board eventually, but I want to fill in my buggying quiver first. As to my winds, I almost never measure them. reviewing the Beaufort scale I'd say the good winds I get to fly in are Beaufort 3 or 8-12 MPH. I just know I usually buggy with a home-built 5m FB kite. That kite is now flying poorly--probably stretched. Having tasted the Arc-flavor of the depower koolaid I do not want to pursue FB at this time. Dean--who also buggies, is about my size and lives here in Gainesville--says to get a 10m Arc. I looked at the projected area of the 10m and 12m Synergy vs the 10m Scorp and see what you mean. The 12m Syn is not much bigger than a 10m Scorp. I bought a 16 Scorpion and it is a lot to buggy with. I had fun, but any attempt to power it up started the backend sliding. I really want the ability to dial in the power I want. With Dean's 10m Phantom the control bar is like a throttle. The acceleration when I sheet in is delicious. Dumping the power when I sheet out is a great comfort. I have added pig tails to the 16m scorp to get me more depower, but have not yet had a chance to try them.

in the new market i can honestly say there isnt a single SYN 10m left until some shop has one sitting there. if so CALL ME FIRST. hehehe. There are a few 12m and 15m SYN left but thats also going fast. The Scorpion there is also only a few in the 13m.

the used market can be tricky too, since most guys arent letting go of our Phantoms since it seems to be the best for buggying. I think Todd has a smaller Scorpion for sale.

IMO is to wait for the Charger 10m and borrow Dean's 10m until its out. :tumble:

Quote:

Originally posted by WolfWolfee I buggy with my 16m Scorpion all the time, it definitely likes little more wind (15 mph +). When you spend the time and get all the strap setting to where they feel best for you'll be very happy. I haven't had a chance to fly it against a Phantom, but I find the Scorpion is pretty quick and has no problem running out front in the window. My only other Arc is a 18M Guerilla, which flies in low winds no problem, but I could turn the Scorpion three times in one turn with the beast, but the float is incredible.

Are we talking about the same kite? I had plenty of power with probably 8mph of wind. Maybe we buggy in different conditions? I'm 165 lbs and I buggy on hard packed beach. On other surfaces I'd want more power. If I weighed more I could handle more power.

I agree some tuning is in order, but I never imagined I could detune a 16m enough that I would want that much wind. Is the trick in extending the depower range? Or is it internal strap adjustments?

I went and reread Flyjump's 16m Scorp review thread and I really think the back lines were too short when I was trying this kite. Maybe I don't need a smaller kite as badly as I thought.

Philip

Just be careful looking to the D'arc side when you're teased by low winds. I'd unroll an Arc any day over any other kite in my quiver but there are those days when there just isn't enough wind to lift the rig off the ground no matter how bad you want it.

They say with arcs, if it'll fill, it'll fly and I have experienced that first hand. Thing is, if it takes a LONG time to fill, it probably won't be a pile of fun to fly. Low wind for me to start thinking about unpacking the Flysurfer instead would be 8-10 MPH and still it's not the best. Granted our winds are anything but clean and when it gets that low you're fighting lulls down to kite dropping levels. With an arc that means I get hung out at the edge of the window because I've been working it trying to keep it flying and ultimately drop to the ground, with the FS it means I drift backwards into the powerzone ready for a scud when the lull ends. Sounds like you DO have clean wind though so maybe you'd fare better than us inland suckers. It's the lull that takes the fun out of light wind days here.

For snowkiting in 8-10 MPH winds if it had to be one of my Arcs it'd be the V19 and nothing smaller. I'm 175lb (blonde hair, blue eyes, average build......but sorry, I'm married ; )

My 2¢ (CDN)

Quote:

Originally posted by pbc Quote: Originally posted by WolfWolfee I buggy with my 16m Scorpion all the time, it definitely likes little more wind (15 mph +). When you spend the time and get all the strap setting to where they feel best for you'll be very happy. I haven't had a chance to fly it against a Phantom, but I find the Scorpion is pretty quick and has no problem running out front in the window. My only other Arc is a 18M Guerilla, which flies in low winds no problem, but I could turn the Scorpion three times in one turn with the beast, but the float is incredible. Are we talking about the same kite? I had plenty of power with probably 8mph of wind. Maybe we buggy in different conditions? I'm 165 lbs and I buggy on hard packed beach. On other surfaces I'd want more power. If I weighed more I could handle more power. I agree some tuning is in order, but I never imagined I could detune a 16m enough that I would want that much wind. Is the trick in extending the de-power range? Or is it internal strap adjustments? Philip

Well flying conditions are a factor, I weigh 260 and fly in fields strap adjustment are a factor. Slowing the turn rate down decrease the power IMO.

email sent

I have a 10m Scorpion in excellent shape that I could be tempted to sell - it sits between my 8m and 12m kites and was thinking I'd keep it as my desert kite but ..... hmm maybe, not sure yet ... It just came back from a trip to Scotland so it might have some Isle of Barra sand on it.
Mark

Mark,

Thanks for thinking of me, but Todd sent me a very crisp, clean 10m Scorpion that arrived today. :-)

Thanks, Todd!

Philip

You're very welcome Philip!