Hi all. Am new to the forum & landboarding and would appreciate some advice. Currently am getting to grips with a Rage 3.5 on a flexifoil board which are great. Intention is to start kitesurfing next year too so am looking at an inflatable.

Question is what size of inflatable would typically equate to a 3.5m rage as I get the feeling that there is not 100% equivalency and i'd like to understand this before settling on a size. By understanding this I can then get a feel for the likely pull. Am 6ft and about 90Kg and would like an inflatable that is a step up from the 3.5 but could either work okay for me on the water or one of our kids

Thanks in advance

Paul

Hi Paul

welcome to PKF.

You can't just pick an inflatable that equals in term of power to your 3.5m rage. First you are trying to compare peaches and apples.

First LEIs use depower systems, so you need bigger size. Then foils tend to be more powerful per size, so again you need bigger. Riding on water takes bigger size in general than land or snow.

Also other factors to consider includes the average wind in your area, your skill level, your board (type and size), the water conditions (chops, waves, flat), and etc.

There are also different LEI types and shapes such as Bow, hybrid, C shape, Delta which all have different performances chateristics.

So there is no such conversion from landboarding with a small fixed bridle foil versus a LEI.

The best advice is to go with a lesson on the water if you can (for safety reasons, and speed up learning), Then your coach/teacher can help you pick the right gear for you (too many brands and models). Always best to hang out with other kitesurfers in your area if possible and see what they ride.

Here on PKF many kitesurfers also ride foils on water. I have been riding foils and LEIs on water. I tend now to prefer foils for the ride and lighter winds, and LEI for strong gusty and sh.tty winds.

what size ?? if you intend to ride a lot on water, then 2 or 3 kites will be needed. The average size for the average guy that tends to be most popular is 12m, but in strong winds a 9m will be best and in light winds you'll see a lot of 15-16m.

Do you have a local spot that you will go for the water ?
Can you hang out there and pick the locals brains about what is working for them ? Very often someone will have the right gear for sale because they are updating so you can avoid shipping +" try before you buy "!
Your best choice is to get at least 1 lesson in before buying. The instructor may be the best person to help you with the choice.

Kites of the same size can have very different power delivery depending on their shape + control systems.

You may want to go second hand for your 1st kite. You will crash a lot and so odds of wrecking it are up there.

Some people swear by the value of " auto zenith " that arcs offer for learning ? I know I struggled with the kite while trying to get in to my board and it slowed my progression a lot. The arcs forgiving nature definately helped me with my jumps.

The locals are your best bet but we can try to help you on here as well. Don't rush into this one and you will make a good choice.

Welcome to PKF!

I think get some lessons first, use their gear the borrow someone's LEI, bow/hybrid and arc and see what you like. I like arcs cos they're cheap and easy to fly ... each to their own.the

Quote:

Originally posted by PaulGl Question is what size of inflatable would typically equate to a 3.5m rage as I get the feeling that there is not 100% equivalency and i'd like to understand this before settling on a size. Paul

This is hard because the comparison is not just "apples to oranges" but apples to elephants.

the best way to approach the question is to leave the Rage out of the equation and ask, "what is a good de-power kite that can be used for cross-over work (land and water)" .

By most accounts (but not all) the LEI's are left out of the mix for land use because the high pressure bladders are more vulnerable to damage on land.

That would leave the Peter Lynn ARC's/ Twinskins, the HQ Neo and the Flysurfers

I agree that the best way to approach this is with lessons, but bear in mind that many instructors tend to be LEI- centric which is OK, but ask you instructor if they are familiar with the other types so that they can advise you for cross-over work.

Thanks guys, advice is appreciated. Certainly intended going down the Instruction route - just wanted to get a feel for things so thanks

Regards

Paul

LEIs are the best all around kite. They perform well everywhere. Dont let these guys shy you away from them. This forum tends to be biased against LEIS. They will work fine on land.

lost interest

Loosing points carl. If you dont like my opinion dont read it.
I would say your post was more trollish then mine.

lost interest

I say what i think and dont have to post in caps to get my point across. Other then a c kite all other LEIs are basicly the same with close to the same performance characteristics. Good low wind ability, good gust handeling, easy relaunch, easy setup, simple bridle, good high wind, good depower range, holds its shape, all around workhorse.
If i were on this forum posting the same about foils or arcs i wouldnt have heard one word from anyone. Because i ride inflatables i take the most abuse on here out of anyone. And you know what. I dont care. Dosent bother me one bit. And i will co tinue to voice my opinion, loud and clear for all to read. Ive had people u2u me and tell me that ive helped them and they feel the same about LEIs as i do.
Grow a set OK

lost interest

In my quiver right now i have
7m best tempest, 9m caution answer, 11m best tempest, 12m north rebel,
13m ozone sport, 14m north rhino, 16m best bfk, 16m caution answer, 18m best bfk
21m best yarga
i said generally LEIs are the same just as peter lynn arcs are generally the same. As fixed bridal foils are generally the same......

Talk about trolling. Envoking me to respond then backing out.

lost interest = the lolz

I guess the infatos are fine on the land - so long as you don't crash into stuff. Perhaps for a more advanced pilot like yourself, they are great but for the newbs ... maybe no.

My score so far - holes in inflatuo LEI/SLE = 2 and rendered unusable for the rest of the day. Nose dived into the shore and hit a tree and the other dragged across the shore to relaunch holed on something.
Holes in foils or arcs = 0 ... well zero that I know about - they're all still flying anyway

In my limited experience of kitesurfing - that's a pretty horrific rate of let down ... luckily they were rentals

lol Rentals!!!!! I'm guessing you didn't have to pay for the damage

Ive seen foils have sells blown out in inexperenced hands.

Just talking about personal experience ... and I've heard a foil with a blown cell will still fly

I paid for the damage to one out of a sense of duty cos it was a kind of friend doing me a favour loaning me a school kite when I wasn't really having a lesson ...

Ive seen a foil fly with a blown cell, and tear out 2 more cells. Ive flown the 11m with a strut bladder flat with no worries of more damage.

I think when people talk about LEIs deflating and ruining a day's kiting, we're talking about leading edges ...

Yea everytime a bladder goes flat its always the leading edge. None of the other bladders ever go flat. These bladders are so sensitive if you look at them wrong they go flat.

Quote:

Originally posted by snobdr LEIs are the best all around kite. They perform well everywhere. Dont let these guys shy you away from them. This forum tends to be biased against LEIS. They will work fine on land.

Snobdr, the issue isn't that you prefer LEIs. It is that you state your opinion as if it were fact. Go back and read Angus's post and see how balanced it is without getting opinions involved. You say LEIs are best, but that isn't an objective statement and many others would disagree with you. State why you like LEIs without putting other equipment down (Again, go look at Angus's post for a how to). I promised myself I would just ignore you from now on when you do your troll move every time this stuff comes up, but I failed miserably.

If you like really snappy power, then you lean towards LEI. They can be a beast and aren't as quite as forfiving as foil de-power kites. The power boost from them can be intense though. Kite loops are probably easier on LEI's but i've never done one while riding so i guess i can't really comment on that aspect.

Closed foil kites such as flysurfers and peter lynns are nice on land because they tend to be a little bit more forgiving while learning and beyond. They have a smoother power build up and aren't quite as snappy (insane power though). They have really good float down compared to LEIs. I"m not saying that LEIs drop you like a rock either. Plus some brands of closed foils such as Peter Lynn have the autozenith which makes learning how to ride a little bit easier and quicker because you focus on riding and not so much about your kite/equipment.

I've ridden both styles on land. Both can take you fast and high, but it's more of your preference
Hope that is helpful

Quote:

Originally posted by carltb lost interest

as a Peter Lynn Team rider i was expecting perhaps a more enlightened post to help the newbie. Or, sometimes its just best to say nothing if you have nothing to say.

For me, if i had my time over again, i would definitely concentrate on inflatables.
They perform incredibly well, safe, user friendly, the most popular, therefore there are always people around who can help you. [foils are sometimes a bit of a struggle for the SLE/LEI users].

This said as a person who has both foils and inflatables and has the luxury to afford both. I can choose when to use them under what conditions and circumstances.

If you budget is limited then stick with inflatables, they will not generally disappoint.

To actually answer the question, I am teaching my daughter who is nine on an old slingshot fuel 9metre, but on 5metre lines which is a blast and very safe.

If you purchase or seek out the method kite teaching material, it will do a good job on explaing line lengths and safety.

Quote:

Originally posted by _thephantom_ Quote: Originally posted by carltb lost interest as a Peter Lynn Team rider i was expecting perhaps a more enlightened post to help the newbie. Or, sometimes its just best to say nothing if you have nothing to say.

He wasn't saying he lost interest in the question... it's a matter of not opening yet another snobdr brand can of worms...

If paul needs any advice from me then i will gladly give it to him via u2u. im not going to get drawn into another silly conversation with "the snob". ive heard all that hes got to say over and over again an it just bores me now

Not to move this off topic more than it already is but I feel compelled to put in my 2 cents. I've been in this sport for more than 15 years now and have been to all the forums etc. etc.. When opinions and advice turns into a pissing match for whatever reason we're only doing a dis-service to ourselves. Promote the sport, try to give helpful advice, promote safety as much as can be expected but END IT with the bantering sh_t. It benefits no one. It would certainly be nice if there was less crap to be had on the forums since I hate trudging through it but more importantly those new and old alike will more likely participate due to a better forum environment. Forums have the opportunity to be a great resource for new people and pro's alike. Few participate in it though for this very reason. Myself included.

Ride hard
Good winds
Dean

Whatever if i stated that ARCs were the best all around kite probably more then half of you would agree with me.

Carl baits me then backs out "lost interest" Then why bait me.

I post my opinion and get attacked.

What a Joke.

Nah I wouldn't agree you
And you know what - you don't have to take the bait :D

When im attacked i respond.