No joke, I'm a 60 year old who'd like to learn how to master getting controlled air/hang time. :wee: I can't do the spins, toe-touches on the landboards, or hit the waves in 20 mph gusts, and I can't lift buggies out of vehicles like you younger aces, but I'm asking for anyone who has mastered the controlled glide to help me get started. I've seen the Synergy 15m video of a fellow doing exactly what I'd like to learn to do, though I envy those who can do more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuoCZZkiqRw&feature=relat...

Of course, at my age, I'm not exactly wanting to break body parts, thank you. Can anyone offer any suggestions on how to get started with this. The largest kite I currently own is a Beamer IV 4m. If you think this is a major accident looking to happen, please let me know that, too.

I'm not near a beach, so soft sand is not an option. Just green grass and flat landscape. I might be able to find water, but we're talking cold, and that's not fun for me. I'd do the hang-glide thing, but a lot of those people hit the ground hard, and that's not fun, either.

Thanks very much, to all, in advance.

You might want to look into paragliding.

A 4m Beamer isn't going to give you floaty jumps. It is a good kite to start practicing with. Kite jumping is fun, and "can" be safe but you need experience and the right equipment to do so. There is a video somewhere of a guy who got lifted 40 feet into the air with a 5 meter kite. He came down hard and broke his hip and punctured his lung. I'll find it and post it when I get home. Just know that there is lots of risk. Is there anybody you can fly with that likes to kite jump? Try and find some local kiters an get advice and watch them (if there are any locals anyway) do lots of research and talk to as many kiters as possible. It's not a good idea to rush into jumping, because if you jump there will be those times where you could crash hard. I wouldn't advise it at your age, but I don't know you an your abilities. Be safe. And reasearch!

I went from a 3m HQ Beamer to a 4.1m PL Twister II, which gave me some jumps, but not floaty as you suggest.

Now I recently got a Synergy 15m, same as the video, and my jumps are smooth and soft. Some people may say this jump was too much; But I find that the 15m Syn has plenty of depower to get me through interesting situations.

Also I'm 18 and 140lbs

Brian

This guy is dune soaring.

Taking advntage of the rising wind above the dunes. That + the ground dropping away are what give him added time.

Any place with a natural updraft like that will work.

Are you near water ? Big safe jumps are easiest on old bones in water.

core strength to remove a buggy from a vehicle is high but controlling a jump or air is higher

ditto for paragliding... i think that would be more what you are after than kiting

I very much appreciated the comments, thus far. This fellow is doing a risky extreme version of what I'd like to do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzOCEDm73tM&feature=fvw

What kind of kite is this fellow flying? And his bar? His bar assembly looks clean.

I'm grateful for the cautions and hints on how and how not to proceed from all.

I checked out paragliding YouTubes. I sized it up as one definitely having to know how to keep lift in the billows or it's 'good night'. And even lift doesn't guarantee one's tush will land softly or not on someone's fence post, or maybe a tree. Some of those dudes really get into dangerous scenes, and canopies seem to be able to fail any time. Too high up for me at this stage of my life.

I'm just interested in land skimming or floating a couple of feet up. I agree, water is best for bones, but the water is not easily accessible or practical for me. I'll just watch the parasailers do their thing. Perhaps a rolling hill golf course may do the trick. The dunes are a good suggestion, too. Motor assist is nice, but too loud for me. I think gentle [rolling hill] slope will be my choice.

Bladerunner, you look cool on your wheels -- something I'd like to try if they work on grass. Thanks, too, for describing the lift factor of the dunes. I've flown RC gliders and know of such lift, and the downside of turning with the wind. Maybe a Synergy 15m or 19m is my aim? [thx brplatz] Or a Neo? I've heard Synergy 15m's are being discontinued. Regardless I'm going to have to try the the depower.

I'm 205 lbs, so I could lose some to help out the situation or I may leave craters. Again, good input -- thanks to everyone.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3MtHy-v3ZE

Hey Stan, great to hear you are going into this venture with thought and research. I think if you've been flying that Beamer regularly, you are probably stronger than you realise, and strength here is the key. You need those strong muscles to take up the shock of landing, especially when it is not as floaty as you would like. I say all this without having the experience of purposefully(?) jumping with my kites,(caught some air "accidentally" a time or three). I don't think I've progressed that far yet, in my 2 yrs. of powerkiting. (I don't have any really lifty kites, and I'm 52) I know I'm now in much better shape than when I started this, and 50 lbs lighter too, and jumping, especially in the snow, will happen when I get my board skills down a bit better(and a lifty kite or two). The guy that got me in to this sport is 58 or 59, has been snowkiting for 9 years now, and is nuts about getting air with his bigger Frenzy's and Manta's, so conditioning, not age, is the biggest factor here. Heck, I met an 84 yr. old guy out on skis with his kite last winter. He wasn't getting air, but was cruising along at a respectable clip!

I'm too busy to lnk you but maybe you should search Speed kiting or something. It is a cross between paraglide and snowkiting.
someone post the Eiger speed kiting link and hook this Dude !

Stan, the 2nd vid you posted was Alex Petersen, flying a Best LEI. That cliff soaring looks kind of scary, but the wind was a steady BFT 4-5, onshore, so the chance for a lull was minimal. Wouldn't even think of trying something like that with inland winds.

Well being in the advanced ages of life, I too am an air freak. Nothing better than sailing across the ground in the buggy getting every little ounce of power out of the wind. I now use mostly Pl's, Scorpion 16M and a 18M Guerilla. The Scorpion might be too much for you but the Guerilla is an amazing gentle giant with incredible float. I recently had my nephew just hovering above my head for over a minute(he swears it was 2 or 3..lol). Start off learning to do bunny hops, learn about feet placement on landing and how to transfer the downward motion into forward movement. First thing is to gear up, I use a 661 body armor suit, bomber shorts and full length leg protection and of course a helmet. I am on my second set of 661 gear, hit so hard one time literally tore the one arm right off and walked away from it but shaken up pretty good. IM me and we can talk about bunny hops.

Speed Gliding is Hooj.... :Ange09::Ange09::Ange09:

Alex is an accomplished Paraglider and kiter. He has skills that we won't ever get at 50 and 60 years old.

He is one of my Heros though !

Here is the Eiger Vid.

Watch it full screen up close !!!!!!!:wow:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut1kGmOhzWQ

THAT'S the one Bladerunner! Amazing.......you think you could get away with stuff like that at Whistler/Sunshine etc.?

Now, Can anyone remember that vid of the dude in the dunes with the Flysurfer - the one where he sets up the camera and then seems to take forever to "walk" away from the camera to the top of the far dune and then takes flight?

Okay,... another puzzling question for y'all... if low-level dune skimming/soaring/jumping is the goal, which foil/sail system is the more efficient??? Is it better to use a kite, parakite, paraglider, parafoil, parasail, parashoes, or what... from mound height??? Height of the flight at any given time [for my purposes] not to exceed about 3 feet to max ground impact potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxUT3pwc_n4&feature=fvsr

What system offers the easiest controlled launch and low level soar, with maximum control and safety (max lift, min stall/collapse/c & b [crash & burn]...) It seems there is a fine line between a kite, paraglider, parasail, and the other relative terms.

:Ange09:

...A passing thought when writing this -- is there some kite/soaring/flight dictionary available to help us all agree on the various equipment terms? Would creating one make a helpful post? [I authored an onsight dictionary of terms for RC flyers which consisted of input from many experienced flyers, like you.]

If you read Stan's posts closely, I think he's probably not looking to do any speed gliding, more like a controlled hover. The only problem I have with this is a kite lifty enough to allow hovering 3 feet off the ground likely will have lift enough to pick you up and slam you in a gust. So the best question I can come up with is, how are your winds, Stan? Are they clean and steady, like onshore, or gusty and bumpy inland winds?

I'm not ~quite 60 yet :cool2: but still getting quite breakable. I'd like to try more of the beach hang time stuff too (but all the dunes around here are fenced off). Paragliding and hang gliding is a little more expensive and involved than I'd want to go for at this time.

The most affordable option is a larger arc kite - the earlier ones would do since you're after stability more than speed. The other hang-time vids I've seen use Flysurfers or tube kites.

On anything harder than soft sand, you'll need reinforcements, wraps and padding. I have several kinds of sorbothane ("impact gel") insoles, high-top shoes, and even bought some surplus paratrooper ankle support braces off eBay. You might want to wrap your knees for better support as well as wear hard-shelled pads on the outside.

And remember, all the padding in the world doesn't prevent injury if you land wrong or get pulled enough to twist, bend or torque your limbs. just ask me- I'm still limping a little from a month ago! :sniff:

Now, just to feel better, I'm posting my dream video for the umpteenth time!

To answer the wind question, Stan and I fly together....We live in the Dallas area. Winds are inland, sometimes gusty depending on where we fly. There are areas near lakes we can fly to get fairly clean air.....or on those lakes if he goes with a water capable kite.

My fairest assumption of our conversations is he really wants the 'airborne' feeling. That feeling can come with a few inches to a foot off the ground and I think he would be happy....chime in Stan if I'm wrong. I know his wife would be happy with the limited height Long float times skimming just above the surface would be ideal.

To accomplish this, I'm not sure if a 12m arc would fit the bill or would he need to go smaller or even bigger? Hes' at 205 medium build and in pretty good shape.

Winds during the summer months (Jun-Sep) are 5-10 usually and winter 8-17 on a guestimated average from experience.

I couldn't give him all his answers with my limited arc experience, so I sent him here to you guys. Great input so far by the way. Thanks

The Paragliders do exacty what you describe as their ground handling practice.

I haven't seen a single bad thing happen with 100's of hours flying around them as the " Kite " there paraglider.

It almost sounds like you want a Paraglider. You can get one used pretty cheap but it won't be one you want to use to do a true paragliding flight.

Found it (but it's really not the intended use of these things ; )




And another:


All in all I'd agree with BR - a paraglider training canopy would be the ticket. I'd be willing to bet that you'd be looking at about the same cost to go that route as you would to pick up a big kite to play with? Might be a bit cheaper on the kite side but just because the used market is probably larger.

Now...tell me more about these "parashoes"?

Posting for the benefit of lost souls pondering similar ideas, or just taking pity... My problem is that Texas is a lot of private land -- flat, hard ground, with a lot of snakes and wild hogs. I want to keep my tush close enough to the ground to minimize impact and maximize control to stay within Texas.

Kites offer the ability to fly whenever and wherever there's wind. The gliding canopy, on-the-other-hand, would seem to require more specialized conditions, such as slopes, to even consider having any fun. Who actually goes to their local flat park to fly their gliding canopy? How many Texas parks have gentle slopes? Haven't seen any, yet. A primary fact to live for, the farther out I truck, the greater wait on medical if I should need it. Sorry, Aces, but the older one gets, the more important that factor becomes.

Mixed emotions and fused...

Stan:megan:

Stan,I think what the guys are sayin is ..... There is not a kite out there that can pick you up and just hover. it's not that easy. And A kite that can pick you up like that ,can and will hurt you eventually.
Is there anyone here that can say they have not been taught a lesson or two.
At 60 ,lessons will probably come at high cost. I'm not sure you can handle that,remember you can't get a 50 lb. buggy out of a vehicle.

For the best in hanging out at low altitude, check this out. Paragliding over dunes in France.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_-CpO2uZ2I

Quote:

Originally posted by bobalooie57 If you read Stan's posts closely, I think he's probably not looking to do any speed gliding, more like a controlled hover. The only problem I have with this is a kite lifty enough to allow hovering 3 feet off the ground likely will have lift enough to pick you up and slam you in a gust. So the best question I can come up with is, how are your winds, Stan? Are they clean and steady, like onshore, or gusty and bumpy inland winds?

*****************************
Nice accurate description of my intent, Bob. You're right, I'm not out for speed gliding. The "controlled hover" is one accurate term for my goal. Height and speed are not in the picture.

In answer to your question, I have to say, when we get winds in excess of about 7 or 8 mph, they typically include unpredictable gusts up to about 15 mph, or even more. I would want to tie myself to a tree as a climber being belayed, especially in gusty wind.

Questions:
1. Can a training paraglider canopy be flown as a kite if necessary?
2. What wind speed does the typical paraglider have to attain over its canopy to assume flight for a 200-lb man?
3. How much area does the typical canopy occupy in comparison to a kite? 15m? 20m? More?

-- Stan

Quote:

Originally posted by Akulakat To answer the wind question, Stan and I fly together....We live in the Dallas area. Winds are inland, sometimes gusty depending on where we fly. There are areas near lakes we can fly to get fairly clean air.....or on those lakes if he goes with a water capable kite. My fairest assumption of our conversations is he really wants the 'airborne' feeling. That feeling can come with a few inches to a foot off the ground and I think he would be happy....chime in Stan if I'm wrong. I know his wife would be happy with the limited height Long float times skimming just above the surface would be ideal. To accomplish this, I'm not sure if a 12m arc would fit the bill or would he need to go smaller or even bigger? Hes' at 205 medium build and in pretty good shape. Winds during the summer months (Jun-Sep) are 5-10 usually and winter 8-17 on a guestimated average from experience. I couldn't give him all his answers with my limited arc experience, so I sent him here to you guys. Great input so far by the way. Thanks

*********************

I couldn't have said it better, Mike. Thanks. Thanks, too, for saying I'm a medium build. You're too kind.

I have to add my thanks to Mike for putting me onto this website. So far, everyone has been very helpful and friendly. My sincere thanks to Mike and all of you who have contributed. I have to add that if it wasn't for Mike offering demo flights, I wouldn't have the experience to be inquiring about air time or would I be flying the kites I am. I've received, and continue to receive a great deal of enjoyment from kite flying. It's a great way for me to keep calories off, too.

considerable power is needed by canopy size or wind speed or apparent speed .

sustained lift in low wind under 10mph with out the benefit of elevation ?

thats a lot of energy .

with out exposure to high wind or speed ? tough folks for a kite and the balance and strength to control a huge low wind beast would be feat for sure . just to get it going with a few jumps, the effort would be huge without wind or elevation, wow. a couple laps with a 24m something would be an Olympic effort for a 3sec. hop. after 20mins. thats about the time you become exhausted and get hurt.

sustained floats... best i have done on a flat beach , maybe 10sec a foot or two high , venom 16 in 35mph + tedious indeed, NOT recommended this was farting around during a water session.
paragliding maybe be more the ticket , but piloting with a powered unit still has risk and some serious physical demands .