I've had a few sessions with the new Chargers and wanted that I would share my impressions so far. It's a little early for me to give a really detailed report but I wanted to at least give a basic overview.

I'm not going to cover the bar or the bag right now. I'll just say the bar is great so far and the bag is... well it's a bag and we're not flying the bags. (Nice bag tho)

My impressions in a nutshell....

Super stable. Auto zeniths as good if not better than the Venom 2. Seems to sit foward/centered in the powerzone. Dead smooth. The Scorpion and Synergy seemed to give up some stability in favor of faster turn rate. Swallows gusts as well as any Arc I've flown.

Faster turn rate. Faster than anything I've ever seen from Peter Lynn. 15m turns like a 12m Syn or a 10m Venom. This is with a long bar, working it but it does it regardless. The 10m turns (no joke) as fast as a 3m Frenzy 2005. Again with a long bar. Allows you not only to sine but to do figure 8's (again, no joke) to build speed and power in light winds. A short bar would probably be a bit safer in general to avoid sudden mistakes.

Lift. A lot more lift. Scary lift if you aren't careful. If you don't time the jump right or don't throw the kite back enough to launch you won't see the extra lift. If you time it right you'll orbit. I'm not a jumper so I need to learn.

Low wind performance. The Charger has the best low end of any Peter Lynn to date. It's much better in general and with the faster turn rate you can really build apparent wind.

Depower. UNBELIEVABLE DEPOWER! I almost forgot! Between the amount of depower and the stopper ball on the bar you can really fine tune the throw and power levels.

I'm not sure but the amount of depow may be reliant on the Navigator bar. I'll fly them on one of my '07 bars and see how that goes.

That's it in a nutshell. I cover it in more detail on www.hardwaterkiter.blogspot.com and cover the bar too.

I've heard some complaints about line lengths and other issues with the navigator. Did you have issues? Anything you didn't like about the bar or kite?

I'm curious if the people who have had issues are on water or land. I'm riding on snow so that may make a difference.

I've been running with extensions and haven't had anything that I would call a problem arise. It takes a little getting used to in some ways but it's a hell of a lot more user friendly than the '07 bar was.

Safety works awesome and flags out the kite perfectly.

There are some minor tweaks that I'm working on but right out of the bag I'm stoked on it. One session on a bar with a stopper and you're spoiled for everything else.

Glad for the Clam Cleat as well.

My only problem at the moment is figuring out how to get the lines back to normal after the kite has flipped through itself. Still working on that. Hasn't happend enough to get a feel for it!

Good to know they're lifty! I actually laughed out loud at the line " we're not flying the bags"... haha.

I've also heard some complaints about the nav bar... if I end up getting a new(er) kite, suppose a syn or charger, would the 07 bar work ok for these?

Also what is this xxxxx 9m? Secret project from pl? Do tell more! At least whatever you can!

Sorry, check my edit on the original post. I will test them with the '07 bar and see how it goes. I don't doubt it will work I just don't know if it will work as well as the Navi.

Shhhhhhhh on the XXXXX. =)

It would be cool to see the Phanny reborn eh?

Quote:

Originally posted by Feyd Sorry, check my edit on the original post. I will test them with the '07 bar and see how it goes. I don't doubt it will work I just don't know if it will work as well as the Navi. Shhhhhhhh on the XXXXX. =) It would be cool to see the Phanny reborn eh?

Ah, so its seeing the light of day. I better start saving now. I want a 12m and a 9m and a 6m and a <running off to count money in the change jar> :singing:

I'm still curious about other people's issues with the bar. If you guy's have anything specific that you can tell me I'd appreciate it.

Maybe I can get some input from Peter Lynn that could help.

Thanks!

Probably refering to this post on kiteforum about the bar...

http://www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=633188#p633188

Not sure what else there is.

I put the 8 hook provided for riding suicide on the bottom of my safety line to connect to. That heat shrink loop wasn't cutting it .

Do you get a better bottom end out of the 19 or does the speed of the 15 make up for the difference ?

What is your bottom end wind and on what one please ?

Any surprise that's snobdr "reviewing" of the Charger consists of moaning about "short-comings"? :sniff:

I must not have been here for his reign of terror... I'm assuming people had problems with him in order for him to be banned.

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Originally posted by Kamikuza Any surprise that's snobdr "reviewing" of the Charger consists of moaning about "short-comings"? :sniff:

My understanding is that there were launch issues due to low wind when they first tried it.

Quote:

Originally posted by InvertedForce I must not have been here for his reign of terror... I'm assuming people had problems with him in order for him to be banned.

People had a lot of issues, but they almost all boiled down to an inability to tell that he was joking. He's a great guy in person.

very nice, would you think a 12m charger has the same power as a 12/13m SYN/VEN. ?

future dibs on your C12! what about your SYN Quiver?

Ya,I was there that day, up on the hill, and there was some wind, enough for ragden, and a couple of 9m Frenzy's, but my 8M Access II with my limited skillz, was somewhat underpowered.(got moving about 20 feet a couple of times, but had to fight for it) I don't think Barnes got his twinskin up either, but the wind was not consistent enough. There were some issues with factory bar set-up, I guess, and when you pay $$$ no one wants set-up hassels. And the way I read the review, it's not finished yet. Gonna give it another shot at the Tug Hill Event Jan.16-18, if not before then. I really think that if he gets it to fly properly, it will be a fair review. I know it's hard to review a new kite when you don't have a lot of time or the right winds to do so. I think I was lucky to be able to hold on to Scudley's Reflex for enough time to fly it in a variety of winds. If I had to judge on 1 or 2 flights, I could not have given a fair review.

Bobalooie57, if there's not a lot of wind at this next Tug Hill event, you can borrow my 10m Apex II.

I saw a brand new nav bar with lines of different lengths also. Carltb also told me of this problem on his bar. I dont know this snobdr guy but i would moan too if i had a brand new bar that was screwed up.

Ahh Maven, put them hooks in!!!(edit) I actually was thinking how your 10 would have had me going, but I really think If my board skills were better, and I had more stamina, I could have been going on the 8, especially just before everyone left for Sandy Pond. Barnes flew the 8 and thought it had enough to pull him, but I've probably got 50 lbs on him at least!

myself i see the 12m charger having more power over the 12m syn and v2 !!! haven't even used my 15m syn because the 12m c flies great in low winds where i would have used a v2 16m or the 15m syn..

as far as issues go with the bar...
the little thingy you hook the leash inside the loop is not easy to hook and worst with gloves when it's -25 outside

the safety works perfect ,lines don't get tangled up but it is more complicated to walk your lines making sure nothing is crossed over mainly because the centre top lines being kept together up high near the kite with a ring.
the long rope on the chicken loop can get a line overlaping the other if not carefull setting up,and like i said walking the lines is different then on the z7 when you get up 3/4 of the way you bunch up at the ring..


i'm getting used to it now but i triple check,,once both your bottom lines are perfectly set on each side your good to go..

real sweet kite all that was said about is exact fast,lifty if not carefull got me airborn without even trying

best PL i've flown

steff

Quote:

Originally posted by Maven454 My understanding is that there were launch issues due to low wind when they first tried it.

Still sounds like Jeremy Clarkson trying to review the latest Ducati

Quote:

Originally posted by Maven454 People had a lot of issues, but they almost all boiled down to an inability to tell that he was joking. He's a great guy in person.

That may be the case but he tends to go on and on a bit ... I thought he was amusing till it got petty :shocked2:

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza Quote: Originally posted by Maven454 People had a lot of issues, but they almost all boiled down to an inability to tell that he was joking. He's a great guy in person. That may be the case but he tends to go on and on a bit ... I thought he was amusing too till it got petty :shocked2:

Don't think all of the pettiness can be blamed on him. But, neither time nor place. This is the thread for Chargers!!

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza Any surprise that's snobdr "reviewing" of the Charger consists of moaning about "short-comings"? :sniff:

not at all.......misery loves company I guess...............

In response to Phree's question the best way I can sum it up for the 12m as well as the other sizes is they just have MORE.

More lift.

More power.

More depower.

More speed when turning.

It sounds ridiculous and over simplified I know but it's also the best way i can describe the difference.

The Syn was a sick kite. The Venom series was awesome as well and probably the best all rounder for a while there. But the Jump from the Venoms to the Chargers is about the same as the jump from a P-51 to an F-15. Both are sick in thier own right but one is just miles ahead in it's performance envelope.

In response to Bladerunner's question I haven't completely gotten the low end totally figured out. I haven't had the 19m up enough to know for sure but it's definately better than any Peter Lynn before the Charger.

My first low wind test on the 19m it definately seemed to have A LOT of grunt. More than the 15m and if my edges were in better shape I think it would have translated to better forward speeds than I got. The wind was blowing maybe 10mph. I did an entry on it in my blog www.hardwaterkiter.blogspot and you can see what the conditions were like.

I'm looking forward to another session on it.

The 15m has some pretty damn amazing low end. Easily as good as the Syn 19m had from waht I've seen so far. Initial thought was that the kite was way too powerful but then I got a handle on how much depower it has.

I was able to cruise comfortably in 10mph on 3-4" deep snow. On clean ice you can cruise at about 30mph in 10mph.

The 15m is the closest thing I've flown to a "one kite quiver". I've flown it comfortably from 10ish mph up to 25mph gusty and it's a damn rockstar.

You just have to be mindful of the lift. The lift still sketches me out.

very nice review so far!
Feyd, how heavy are you? this is important to know to judge your statements about the charger. i am only 62 kg, so i suppose the 15 sqm charger would lift me into the stratosphere...
the problem is, that i have a 10.5 sqm naish helix tube kite, so a 12sqm charger seems to be too close in size to my tube ?

p.s. i would die to see some videos! your pictures in your blog are fantastic!

i hate new kites!!!!!!!!!!!!





























































































since i got my chargers the wind has been pants. we get a really good snow coverage then zero winds. snow melts then rain then the wrong wind direction. now we've got another 6inch of snow and you've guessed it zero wind.

Carl, you better send me those Chargers to fix the weather pattern you have. :saint: I don't have any wind either so the new kites here might shake things up. I'm 8 time zones away so this is bound to give us both wind.

thanks, nothing like more.

charger 12m looks to be the ticket for me

Good point Herc. I'm 200lbs. With all my gear (armor/harness/boots/speed skis) I probably weigh in at 230-235lbs.

How the Charger power ranges translates to your LEIs I have no idea.

The best thing I can suggest is find one and try it.

I thought the 12m was going to be my best all rounder btu now I'm not sure. That 15m with all the depow is really sweet. And I'm all about having 12 cylinders even if I only need 8. I can always depower but you can't always make the kite more powerful.

And on a side note I've recieved 3 bars. Zero issues with any of them.

I have been able to ride similar 3" snow ( even sticky wet snow ) in probably just under 10mph on my 15 Syn. I'm 140lbs. At about 10 I could get some decent speed up but it wasn't transating into much when I try to jump.

I have to wonder if a 19m Charger will get me going in much lower wind + if it will transate to jumps earlier ?? Any insight there ?

I will hopefully figure it out when Rip' gets his demos but am thinking I want to hold on to my 15m Syn and buy a 19m Charger ???

Any reason you haven't gone down to 8 or 6m ?

The 15m Syn would struggle to pull me in those conditions without working it and I would loose air speed as soon as I jumped. The Charger would do well in those conditons and still get some substantial jumping in.

The 19m Charger would definately be a better low wind machine. Lets be honest Peter Lynn has not been known for producing what people would call a true low wind machine. The 19m's have always been slated for use by heavier riders for the most part

The 19m Charger for your weight range is would be sick in low winds on the snow. At least that's my impression so far. I'll know more after I really get a few rides out of it.

It would definately be a hell of a jumper for you. The 15m has really nice glide, I can only imagine how the glide on the 19m is. The Chargers seem to respond really well to bar movement and I've been tinkering with that while jumping.

I'd try a demo if you can before you decide. The Charger so far has been a good fit for me but there may be some who prefer a less aggressive kite.

That being said my wife would usually be on a 12m while I'm on the 15m but they depow on these things gives her the confidence to ride the 15m in many of the same conditions I fly in. She weighs the same as you.

It's crazy. I can fly a 10m Charger in winds that my 130lb friend needs a 12m Syn. But I can ride a 15m Charger in winds that my 130lb friend would ride a 10m Syn. Granted I'd be sining or trimming but the fact is I can get the kite to cover that kind of range. Again with working it.

I don't have an 8 or 6 for a couple of reasons.

Availabilty and need.

There weren't any when I put my team order in. And all my top speeds have been on 12-13m sizes so 6/8 aren't a high priority. Espescially this early in the season whe I'm not in condition for best performance and the surface conditions aren't either.

I should also say the the 10m Charger with as much depow as it has is kind eclipsing my new V2.

I should probably sell the V2.

Sorry for the hijack, but does depower only really come into play when you're moving or when you're flying the kite static as well?