I've noticed there are a lot of people on these forums who fly PL Arc kites.

They dont seem to be very popular in the UK. There are certainly very few people using them on the water.

My venom is good in 25 mph + on the water and I'm using to learn to jump with on my landboard because its big, predictable and floaty.

Most of you guys seem to be using them on land though and I was wondering what made everyone choose them. Most kiters I've spoken too away from here think they are not as good as LEI's in the water and not as good as foils on land. some folk on here obviously disagree?

My 15m Synergy is very forgiving for the type of shifty unpredictable inland winds that I mostly have. I could buy a bunch of different kites for all the wind situations that I encounter, or save a little $$$ and buy one or two more versatile kites that cover all my needs. You are right that LEI's have great performance on water, and foils do too on land. ARCs share some of the positive characteristics with both and that's why I went with one.

I have nothing but good things to say about my Synergy, and I know I made the right purchase for my skill level and situation right now.

A lot of guys on this forum seem to mainly fly on land. Land based kiting seems to draw a lot of arc users. They are predictable and a little more stable than most other kites. I've never flown on water but I've owned lei kites before, and I felt much safer when I started on arcs due to stability

Same reasons here, stability, and gust munching. And lift/float :D

Arcs seem popular for the reasons mentioned above. I dont have anything against them, but they dont suit me. I like my flysurfers and tend to use them in most conditions. I just need a couple more for flying on water and I'll be all set. I've tried a Synergy and just didnt care for it. Every time I get out to fly, and someone has an arc, i'm normally having too much fun with what I already have to take much time to fly it... Maybe at the next buggy bash I'll give on a shot, but I wouldnt count on it...

I'm a kiter first and then whatever I do with them is secondary. I'm primarily a buggy guy but just learned on the water last year. I hope to grow my skills on the water. I have never flown an LEI (so can't say anything bad about the way they fly) but was turned off to them because of their huge loss in value very quickly after purchasing them. Add to that all the chatter about repairs to tubes, valves and such and they just don't seem like a good value. To top it off, I relish using things that are a little different than what the masses use. On the positive side, the arcs are quite stable and confidence inspiring. I did my first body dragging session in surf with a 19m Venom which I have since purchased. The arcs are powerhouses in the buggy too with durability suitable for land use.

As you can see; I can't stand them...


One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the auto zenith. I like this feature due to the fact that I'm always readjusting a camera or helping a friend untangle a kite and it's nice to know that it will sit there and wait for me.

Everything else as mentioned above, I just got my 6m Phantom in the mail today! YAY!

Twinskins do it all well! Water, snow, ground. Been using them for it all since 2001. Guys that say they are not as good... just don't know.

There are a lot of guys on Kite Crowd (formerly Flexifoil Forum) using Arc's (mostly land based too).

I don't get why more guys don't use their Arc's on water either. Maybe it has something to do with balls . Or, maybe they try it with their over used, bagged out, porous kite that loses air quickly and sucks in the water (it takes about 3 years of hard use on water, snow and ground for a twinskin to get that bad for me). They still work fine for land, just don't use them on the water.

After experiencing open cell depower, arcs and LEI's, my feeling is if you only fly on land, use open cell depower. If you only fly on water use LEI. If you fly on both, get an open cell depower for land and an LEI or 2 for water use. You could get two LEIs + bar and lines and an open cell depower + bar and lines for the same price as one good condition modern arc, and chances are you'll want more kites than just one for land and water use in all wind conditions. Yes the gear will not be new but the fact that LEIs lose their value so quickly makes it easy to get a relatively new model of LEI for very cheap.

I think its the stability and predictableness of the Venom that I like most.

I got it for the water first but was badly advised on size by a friend and so was vastly underpowered in good learning winds of 12 - 20 mph.

I'm glad I held onto it though because I love it for landboarding. It always seems to be the kite I use to try something new.

I have flown 16m and 19m venoms and found them huge and sluggish compared to an LEI. My C kites are way quicker turning and more responsive. I think I prefer something with a bit more agressive handling on water.

Its interesting to see how many people chose them because of stability instead of performance.

<--- sponsored

however the arcs have float, so that comes in handy when learning new stuff. LEI vs Arc, the only reason IMO is that crashes lead to replacement of Bladder and/or Dacron and on the Arc only the ripstop Chikara. It makes for a good cross-over kite too that works well on the water. Dunno what other conditions are worldwide but locally if its blown its gusty. The fact that the Arcs bend to take up the gusty wind = hence the wider upper windrange. If PL makes a LEI i would use it for water over the Arcs probably. :embarrased:

having said that, if I was a land/snow lover only I would probably get a PL Open Cell Depower instead (coming soon). ie Ozone Manta / HQ Montana

okay, here it comes: Bar works better on boards too for me. geez i need to get back into a buggy again. I miss my handles. :embarrased:

One time when I was holding a lei after attaching the lines, and it EXPLODED shredding my kite to pieces. Non of my arcs ever exploded while sitting on the ground. It made me move towards arcs

I switched mainly for the stabilty and cost factor. Got beat up too many times by foils and was becoming overly cautious when using them - was getting in the way of the fun factor. So was looking for something to get the power level up while reducing stress - enter the arc. Had some issues to begin with (totally different flying style and the punch-out bar I was using would accidentally activate leaving me holding a fully powered kite after the chicken loop had disengaged - the single line ring eject system has since relieved this shortcoming) but have addapted and grown as a flyer with added confidence.

Sold my ARC last year, and haven't missed it. IMHO, the ARC was really weird, no grunt, very poor jumping.

I've moved over to LEI for water, Open Cell Foil for land, both for snow.

william you ever fly a Scorpion, they have grunt and take you up fast. I have switched to basically flying nothing but arc's but live inland. They take gusts like no other kite I've flown and auto zenith is a big plus on land. Still love my Sabre but in for repairs..lol.

Quote:

Originally posted by Todd One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is the auto zenith. I like this feature due to the fact that I'm always readjusting a camera or helping a friend untangle a kite and it's nice to know that it will sit there and wait for me.

That I agree with. If you have the kite in the air a lot but are not always lanboarding/buggying/etc., that is a really nice feature. Once I get going though, I don't really like to stop! So for me that's only really helpful if I'm getting on the board or walking back or something like that. I'll have to give the arcs more of a go when I meet up with you and the other local guys or when the pass the syn/charger comes around.
Have fun with that 6m phantom Todd!

I had an F-arc and it beat the crap out of me because I didn't know how to fly it right. I Had a couple of Guerillas I got super cheap but wasn't sold.

I was pleased with Flysurfers when I tried a Charger last spring. I was hooked right away ! The slow turning was gone. Fast response and shocking depower for what I was expecting + all the usual arc qualities.

Rip got sponsored and got a product I can stand behind . He has been great about getting them in my hands and my jumps have skyrocketed as a result !

I ride on land but try to be prepared to ride anyplace any time. The arc does that job accept low wind.


I simply haven't had the opportunities to fly LEI that I have had with foils. I think that a lot of the folks on here are begining kiters and the buzz about arcs ( + flysurfers ) on here makes many more open to trying them ? The group is primarily land based so talk of foils in general is greater here than some other forums .

I have erm a couple cos they're cheap, they'll work enough on land and water, I don't mind the lack of low-end (so far), I can launch and land by myself safely, they're different to all the others out there (I like weird things) and by far the most important - they're stable ... I've had LEIs Hindenburg on me over and over and been unable to relaunch it, having to wade back to sure and spend an hour sorting all the lines out - only for it to do it all over again :ticking:

The newer LEIs might have better performance but they seem bulkier than the arcs to travel with, they get holes and go flat (sorry PMU/snobdr but it's happened far too often) and I really hate pumping the buggers up. And I hate relying on people to launch and land me.

I'd like to try Flysurfers but they seem to hold their prices too well :D although if I stopped buying arcs I could get one or two FS

Oh and Peter Lynn was a local boy - I used to live just up the road from the old factory

Quote:

And I hate relying on people to launch and land me.

Not trying to start an argument, but I hear this a lot with LEI's and I think its just a matter of knowing how to do it correctly. Maybe you already know this, but setup is leading edge down, kite is upwind of the bar. Doesn't matter how strong the wind is, if you throw a bag or board on that kite its not going anywhere. When you launch you just walk the bar upwind of the kite and then pull the fifth line and take the relaunch process from there. Landing is fairly simple. Bring the kite to the edge of the window just above the ground, and then turn the kite so it hits the ground on its leading edge. Then walk (or run depending on the wind) downwind of the kite and you're in the same position you started in. This is the process I use everytime I fly by myself, and now that I've gotten used to it its a breeze.

That would scare me, allowing the leading edge to hit the ground, I suppose you can probably gently set it down with experience, but if you're not careful, you could pop or puncture the edge, couldn't you?

Basically what you do is you bring the kite to the edge of the window, bring it so the lower wing tip is just barely hovering above the ground, and then tilt the upper wingtip slowly towards the ground and the leading edge will rest on the ground. There's almost no way to slam it into the ground as long as you can control a kite at the edge of the window. Its just as gentle as a person resting the leading edge on the ground. I'm going flying tomorow I'll try and get a video of it its much easier than you would think.

I've seen both done by instructors and been told not to do it cos it's dangerous for newbs
OK allow me to rephrase - I like the ease of self-launch and landing with arcs most of the time, I'll be flying alone

Be interested in seeing the vid though wont make my love of weird things waver though - I ride a V-twin with rotary damper suspension FFS

Lol. I'll post it up tomorow if I remember to take it when I'm out there.

Just seen one on YouTube where the guy hooks the CL to sandbags to self-launch and land and lets go the bar :eek: bet he'd be popular if the kite blows away over the road and through the city

For me it was cost and availability at first but once I started flying them I really came to love them. Had a full quiver of LEI's but flew each one once if that. That's because I was too chicken to self launch them and had an arc already so I just used what I was comfortable with. Still love the idea of an open cell foil but I was bent on having an amphibious quiver so I stuck with the PLs. Will probably not sell the Access any time soon because it was the first BIG kite I ever bought and I bought it brand new so it's precious to me. Plus it's super predictable and "kind" so it's good for those quick flights in the field - no setup at all really.

Now why do I love them? The autozenith and the safety. Both keep my mind at ease allowing me to not worry about that part of things and focus on seeing how hard I can wipe myself out when I start chucking the kites around. If it hits the fan, you just let go. It'll wait for you to sort yourself out and then happily spank you again.

And again. And again. And again.

Thanks folks its really good to hear all your opinions.

I just went off Arcs completely after getting frustrated with my Venom but now I'm using it again for landboarding I'm starting to appreciate it more.

I recently spent a heap of money on my new 12m Naish Cult which is completely awesome - the best LEI i have ever flown and I cant imagine using anything else on the water for a good while - though I may get a 9m helix for stronger winds.

However I think i might start searching ebay for 10, 16 and 19m Venoms while I'm at it

For me it was the kite my instructor recommended for learning (kitesurfing). I love the stability...great when trying to waterstart strapless in heavy chop and rip tides. Love the auto zenith...got put through the spin cycle in a wave and the kite was patiently waiting above for me. Top end and gust factor is great. Depower is awesome. Friendly and forgiving. Durable. Low maintenance. But probably still the number one reason for me is the safety factor...IMHO, this is one if not the most safest kites (Venom 2) out there when riding hooked in...

Quote:

Originally posted by power Quote: And I hate relying on people to launch and land me. Not trying to start an argument, but I hear this a lot with LEI's and I think its just a matter of knowing how to do it correctly. Maybe you already know this, but setup is leading edge down, kite is upwind of the bar. Doesn't matter how strong the wind is, if you throw a bag or board on that kite its not going anywhere. When you launch you just walk the bar upwind of the kite and then pull the fifth line and take the relaunch process from there. Landing is fairly simple. Bring the kite to the edge of the window just above the ground, and then turn the kite so it hits the ground on its leading edge. Then walk (or run depending on the wind) downwind of the kite and you're in the same position you started in. This is the process I use everytime I fly by myself, and now that I've gotten used to it its a breeze.

The pumpers on our beach just anchor the CL to a stake or point on the ground, then walk to the kite at the edge of the window and launch it, setting it on it's wing tip. It will fly there by itself a foot or two off the ground while they walk back to the bar and hook in. Landing is just the reverse.

Thanks Guys,

This has been one of the best topics/posts I have read in awhile.

Many LEI guys will wait for the ARC guy to launch them. Then they hope that the ARC guy is still there to land them when they come back in because they are on the wrong size. :D Then they want you to launch them again. Then they hope you come in before they do so you can land them again. :wee:

So, if you don't want to spend all day launching and landing LEI guys at your launch... don't get an ARC.