My son is using a Montana4 9.5 to snowkite. He weighs about 165#, and is having difficulty staying in motion with our typical wind speeds of 11-15 mph. As long as he is going downwind, things are OK but not real exciting. When he gets close to the edge of the window to try tacking back, the tips begin to collapse or it stalls. I've read other posts where people are out in deep powder without trouble, but he doesn't seem to have enough speed or power with this kite to get on top and keep moving. Is there a possible issue with kite size or type, or could kite tuning be done to improve the situation? Thanks!

Is he working the kite pretty hard, or just parking it to the side and riding? Seems like if the snow was fairly packed and he weighs 165 if he worked the kite up and down quite a bit he should get moving ok. I'd need something like a 13M open cell depower to get moving in 10-12, but I weigh 220. If he's flying the heck out if and still doesn't have the juice, I'd say get a bigger kite, or wait for more wind. Let us know how he's flying it first. You need decent wind to park and ride with a 9. Is he on skis or snowboard?

I flew a montana IV 9.5 the other day, and one thing I noticed about the kite was that the bar HAS to be out some for the kite to fly well. When the bar was all the way in the kite was stalling, turning slow and even going backwards. When he starts riding does he start downwind and then cut crosswind eventually to upwind? If he doesn't have enough power, maybe he should try sining the kite up and down more until he gets going when he'll be able to "park and ride" better. I'm surpirsed going downwind even works for you especially with that low wind speed. If he is moving at 10 mph downwind the windspeed relative to the kite will only be 1-5 mph, and that will definitely cause the kite to stall. Are you flying inland or on the beach? That might not be enough power with lulls in the wind if you're flying inland, once he gets moving he will develop apparent wind though which will make things easier to keep going and get more sustained power out of the kite. If the kite is flying at the edge of the window it probably won't have much power, depending on how close to the edge it really is. When I fly in low winds and the kite progresses to the edge of the window while I'm riding and begins to stall, I'll downloop it back into the powerzone and then it usuallly stays more in the middle of the window. Watch out though, downlooping will generate a lot of power in any winds, so be prepared to lean back or cut downwind a bit before you do the loop. Hope that helps.

Sounds like it needs some adjustment to me.
It seemed to me all the Montanas after the original M1 needed some tweaking to get them to keep from inverting and wingtip curl.

A 9.5 M4 should have plenty of grunt to haul him in thr 15mph wind range. Enough to cruise around with unless he's bogged down in really deep or heavy snow.

That would be my assessment. COuld be as simple as a knot placement. HArd to say without having hands on it.

Power, that was a Montana III that you were using, not a IV.

Something isn't right ?
Either :

You have to trim the kite better
fly the kite harder
avoid buying from jonesband ( inside joke )

This kite should keep you upwind in those conditions.

Quote:

Originally posted by power I flew a montana IV 9.5 the other day, and one thing I noticed about the kite was that the bar HAS to be out some for the kite to fly well. When the bar was all the way in the kite was stalling, turning slow and even going backwards.

Power - I was going to say you need more wind and to adjust the trim strap, but then I found out is was a M3. I had troubles with that kite also. But it still might just need to be trimmed. Were you only static flying or on your board? if only static that explains it also.

Crashlanding - 11-15mph is at the lower end of the scale for that kite. You will definitely make sure you have the kite trimmed in and you will want you power lines at the middle knot even possibly at the knot closest to the bar (at this setting the kite will be harder to turn). You do not want your lines at the knot furthest from the bar in those lite conditions.

Hope you get it working for you.

Quote:

Originally posted by DAKITEZ Quote: Originally posted by power I flew a montana IV 9.5 the other day, and one thing I noticed about the kite was that the bar HAS to be out some for the kite to fly well. When the bar was all the way in the kite was stalling, turning slow and even going backwards. Power - I was going to say you need more wind and to adjust the trim strap, but then I found out is was a M3. I had troubles with that kite also. But it still might just need to be trimmed. Were you only static flying or on your board? if only static that explains it also.

You're right, it was a M3 I didn't really know for sure. I didn't get a good chance to tune it real well, but I was on the board when I was flying it, just not moving too fast because the wind had died a bit. A combination of the low wind and holding the bar all the way in were my main problems I think. I'd have to fly it higher winds to see if the problem was still there.

I think you'll find most depower foil kites (and probably some LEIs too) do not fly real well with the bar pulled all the way back. I've expereinced the same thing with HQs, a slingshot ranger and my frenzys. If the kite is fairly well powered up, pulling the bar all the way in seems to affect it less though.

Yeah at that point you've passed the "sweet spot" in the bar throw.

Unless you're pretty well powered you'll stall the tail of the kite by pulling the bar all the way to the chicken loop.

It's sort of like pulling the brake connector line. It changes the angle of attack to the stall point.

Thanks for the help! More information- He is moving the kite quite a bit, more than park and ride. He understands that the kite needs to be moving to keep it up and prevent stalling. Could too little wind be causing him to pull on the bar to create desired pull, but have the ultimate effect of killing the speed and causing stall? There aren't any knots for adjustment on the power lines or bridle, just a cleat for depower range adjustment, and he's pretty good at using it. The kite does have a nasty habit of over flying zenith, or just falling out of the sky when a tip begins to collapse. He is on a big snowboard (size 12 feet) and does have better results after snow has settled and packed. I've read a few posts about tuning. Is there much to be gained in tweaking or do the OEMs get them fairly close. Thanks!