I got caught up in a dust devil last year and saw a few others in them and one person got hurt by one. Could we have some sort of warning system. I was thinking boat air horns to give a heads up to look out for them. I found some at a $1 store that I could bring with me? we could pass them out to different people and if you see one blast away on the horn.

what happens when you're in the middle of the drylake, and there's one chasing behind you. :wee:

good idea
is this more for the people at camp? so if you hear the horn look around, drop your kite?

I can see it now !

The horn goes off and it is like a starting gun. Everybody from the Dutch to the disturbed running to get out and in front of the Devil

I agree those dust devils are a scarey part of the game. Most people who didn't feel comfortable flying with them sat out. That included me. I'm too old to learn how to react to those beasts and have nothing to prove. My Li'l buddy Rip' on the other hand tosses his 120lb :moon: in front of them and lives his dream!

Don't play with the Devil if you don't want to get burned !!!!!!

Wait, wait, hold on, where did you get the idea that there is no risk?

I'm sorry, somehow we've failed to let you know that kiting on the dry lake bed is risky.

There is wind, sometimes high, sun, sometimes lots of it, and there is high speed, sometimes more than you want, also there is abrasion, plenty of it, and that's just to start with.

Throw in a dust devil or two, and your situational awareness must actually get up to that of the average light airplane pilot.

Pay attention. Dust devils are telling a story. You will only be hurt if you hang on. If you should get caught in one, it's going to be okay, they only lift you off your feet if you are attached to your kite, and you already know how to let go of that, right!?

Seriously, you are your own warning system. I'll say again: PAY ATTENTION!

If it's your first time, talk to the old timers, there's plenty of them, and that in and of itself should tell you something. We're still here, still going out there, and many of us(myself included) have ridden into them on purpose.

In general, you want to avoid them. They are messy and muss your kite.

We don't need more ideas of others taking on the responsibility that you need to have for yourself. It's for sure okay to point them out. Not saying it's not, but we play on the big field, sound doesn't travel far, there is no bigger visual cue than the dust devil itself, and what you are suggesting gives people more things to listen/watch out for instead of just, wait for it, paying attention.

Meanwhile, air horns are used for one thing, and one thing only at nabx. RACING.

That's right, racing. Gonna be some.

Beginners. Everyone else. Be there! If you are not registered, do so now.

See you by the white tent! bring your SA!

aoxomoxoa

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Originally posted by vwbrian I got caught up in a dust devil last year and saw a few others in them and one person got hurt by one. Could we have some sort of warning system. I was thinking boat air horns to give a heads up to look out for them. I found some at a $1 store that I could bring with me? we could pass them out to different people and if you see one blast away on the horn.

Quote:

Originally posted by deanaoxo Wait, wait, hold on, where did you get the idea that there is no risk? I'm sorry, somehow we've failed to let you know that kiting on the dry lake bed is risky.

Our hobby is risky?!? :shocked2: Why didn't anyone ever tell me that! That's it, I'm out. Anyone want to buy a bunch of kites?

Hmmm.. if making people mad is the goal then well bullseye, Dean. Brian was just asking a question and or making a suggestion so you don't need to poke fun. If you feel it is unwarranted then make a comment as to such. The lack of racing at NABX seems to have been a gripe for many so I think an air horn sounding would not go unnoticed. The hotel code still doesn't work and it didn't last year either so after 15 tries I will book without it. I don't even care if I ride or not because I go for the fellowship not to prove something. Ban me from the event for speaking up for a fellow rider if you will but aoxomo-whatever the he** and mellow out. Alvord anyone? Hey Maven--If I like my new venom I might have to hit you up for that scorp.

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Originally posted by heliboy50...The lack of racing at NABX seems to have been a gripe for many...

Hear, Hear!!! Main reason I haven't gone in years.

We have had racing the past 2 years. Loads of fun. Sure wish the results of these races could be found easily on the website.

The code works. Just got my reservation this past weekend. Just gotta call, do no use the online reservation system.

Original topic: yes, pay attention. If we used horns, they would sound all day sometimes. People would ignore them eventually. And they would be annoying.

Arcs can be flown through dust devils. Just keep the kite low so you get pulled sideways (not for the faint at heart). I have not had the kite collapse or invert. Amazing kites.

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Originally posted by geokite We have had racing the past 2 years.

Depends on how one defines racing.

We had a course, start/finish line, participants, officials, and multiple heats (and of course wind, kites, buggies). How do you define racing? EDIT: What was missing?

Quote:

Originally posted by Maven454 That's it, I'm out. Anyone want to buy a bunch of kites?

It's not nice to tease!!! :P

ATB,
Sam

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Originally posted by geokite...What was missing?

Plenty of things, but pointing that out only starts a discussion that devolves into a scream session, every time.

Do you really think racing is what NABX is about?
Never been and probably never will, never run out of spots to fly here and thats what I do.

I heard there was racing last year, however it happened on the day the Dutch and i were leaving.

Im hoping that this year, it will be on earlier or at least more than one race during the week. the euros are coming.... wooohooo.

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf Quote: Originally posted by Maven454 That's it, I'm out. Anyone want to buy a bunch of kites? It's not nice to tease!!! :P ATB, Sam

Moi? I never tease. I am, however, excellent with sarcasm .

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Originally posted by bison Quote: Originally posted by geokite...What was missing? Plenty of things, but pointing that out only starts a discussion that devolves into a scream session, every time.

Well, don't just tease us with the jab. If you have something to say in this public forum about how racing is to be run, then say it. Or leave it. Fragile egos are best not to jab and run when others are so willing to discuss the topic.

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Originally posted by WolfWolfee Do you really think racing is what NABX is about?

Actually, in the old days the focus of SBBB (pre-NABX) WAS racing! So much so that many complaints were regarding too much racing.

I can only speak for me, but I loved those days. Not only did we do Circuit races over a couple of days, but also the 50 mile enduro, and the best race I never got to participate in was the Team Enduro. Lots of participation from all skill levels.

I would love to see those days come back. Alas, I feel that those days are sadly gone.

Well you got me.

I seriously do not know how what i posted could make anyone mad. I sure didn't mean to. Just some straight talk. That's all.

As for racing, we have never had control over conditions. We've had a run of bad luck with them, and are once again going to bend over back wards to have racing this year.

EVERY DAY.

As for the hotel code not working, if it doesn't work one time, all you have to do is contact me, as others have done, and i personally will make sure it works for you.

Did you call?

I seriously can not solve your problem unless you bring it to my attention. My email address is deanjordan (at) gmail dot com Many people write me, and now until the event i will be available to answer questions, put out fires, fix problems, soothe egos, and mend fences.

Now, what's this about ban you from the event?!? What did you do? Leave a burned out motor home parked out in the middle of the playa? Camp up in the brush?? Burn pallets? I mean really, i may not be what you call the ideal spokesperson who soothes every soul, but could you at least give me a chance? I do really care about the event, all who attend, and the playa.

Meanwhile, my message wasn't directed at Brian personally, and Brian, if i offended you, i'm sorry. His post brought up Situational Awareness and the Playa. I guess i could put bullet points there, and be more specific, but in general i think most people that read this are pretty smart. Again, i did not mean to offend, and if i did, i'm truly sorry.

Oh, and Heliboy50, it's your event too, so thanks for speaking up, i look forward to seeing you there, do let me know if you need help with the code, registration, or anything else.

and yes, i am seeking aoxomoxoa~!

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Originally posted by heliboy50 Hmmm.. if making people mad is the goal then well bullseye, Dean. Brian was just asking a question and or making a suggestion so you don't need to poke fun. If you feel it is unwarranted then make a comment as to such. The lack of racing at NABX seems to have been a gripe for many so I think an air horn sounding would not go unnoticed. The hotel code still doesn't work and it didn't last year either so after 15 tries I will book without it. I don't even care if I ride or not because I go for the fellowship not to prove something. Ban me from the event for speaking up for a fellow rider if you will but aoxomo-whatever the he** and mellow out. Alvord anyone? Hey Maven--If I like my new venom I might have to hit you up for that scorp.

Do I pick up my pink skirt at the event or do we get them in advance? I might be interested in a dust devil if it means the difference between riding or not, but not if it means accelerating if I'm already over 40 mph. I wouldn't mind being in a race where I would attempt to stay on the tail end of guys that know what they are doing so I could try to do as they do and keep up. I can't wait to be there with you guys. I"m registered but haven't finalized my plans yet enough to make the hotel reservations.

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Originally posted by geokite...when others are so willing to discuss the topic.

But it is never a DISCUSSION! When I answered your questions with experience, logic and rules, you felt it necessary to insult ME personally. That's what happened to the last thread. An example from this thread already: "Fragile egos are best not to..."

You don't WANT a discussion, you appear to WANT a fight. You've tried, and succeeded with several other buggiers. Yet, I refuse to get sucked into an argument of OPINION!!! I have presented logical, experienced, rules based answers to your concerns. Only, you DON'T want to accept those answers. You continue on with unrealistic scenarios and speculation.

It is impossible to DISCUSS racing with you. You have YOUR OPINION and the experience of others are of no use to you. That is NOT a discussion, it's hubris to think it is.

2 years ago i was in the top 10 .yea 9 competitors i came in 9th ,lots of fun just hard trying to pick the right kite.ithink slawek won and steve bateman 2nd.

Hey Dean- I'm off the soap box now and sorry the crappy post. I just felt like Brian was being criticized for having concerns for peoples safety. I really shouldn't post when I am all ready grumpy You guys put in a lot of work to host this event and it shows. I will do as others told me and use the code over the phone. Again, sorry for the crappy tone of the post. See you all there!

Quote:

Originally posted by deanaoxo Well you got me. I seriously do not know how what i posted could make anyone mad. I sure didn't mean to. Just some straight talk. That's all. As for racing, we have never had control over conditions. We've had a run of bad luck with them, and are once again going to bend over back wards to have racing this year. EVERY DAY. As for the hotel code not working, if it doesn't work one time, all you have to do is contact me, as others have done, and i personally will make sure it works for you. Did you call? I seriously can not solve your problem unless you bring it to my attention. My email address is deanjordan (at) gmail dot com Many people write me, and now until the event i will be available to answer questions, put out fires, fix problems, soothe egos, and mend fences. Now, what's this about ban you from the event?!? What did you do? Leave a burned out motor home parked out in the middle of the playa? Camp up in the brush?? Burn pallets? I mean really, i may not be what you call the ideal spokesperson who soothes every soul, but could you at least give me a chance? I do really care about the event, all who attend, and the playa. and yes, i am seeking aoxomoxoa~!

honestly, dean is working like a madman right now to get everything sorted out. with the amount of international riders coming he has his work cut out for him this year.

as for the DD, most people are good about yelling to ya to drop your kite down. Ride at your own risk, and know your limits. I suggest for the new riders to size down one on for the first day until you feel comfortable. the surface has you rolling fast so you're kite size (based at home) will be different than the drylake surface.

no one wants to get hurt, but you're around a lot of good people that will look out for you:
situation 1: dear friend Ken E. (sorry to use you as a reference).
he was out riding there was no way he could hear us. short story he got ejected ... everyone just knew to run to him to help, while others knew to get run after his kite.

situation 2: robert smit (chips)
he was blazin at 100km too close to camp and crashed into the bushes in full reverse. LOL. anyways, people ran to help and oddly Dean jumped in the van and drove over. Dean how the heck did you know there was an accident when you're in the tent 24/7??? (must be the Jedi Injury Skills)

ask questions, thats what this forum section was for.

i do miss the enduro days too. however i think if the winds are up, racing will be on. if the winds are high than it should be experienced rider race than.

@BBob, i believe your pink skirt comes in advance, but you leave home in pants.

I see where some people are having issues, after phoning the hotel about the group code:

1. their website sucks, and works for some people in the USA

2. if you book over or less than the NABX event days

honestly its better to call the hotel and it doesnt take that long. they email you the Confirmation Details anyways.

I have found calling the hotel an easy enough and pleasant affair with little or no waiting. Hotel code was always recognized as it should have been.

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Originally posted by bison Quote: Originally posted by geokite...when others are so willing to discuss the topic. But it is never a DISCUSSION! When I answered your questions with experience, logic and rules, you felt it necessary to insult ME personally. That's what happened to the last thread. An example from this thread already: "Fragile egos are best not to..." You don't WANT a discussion, you appear to WANT a fight. You've tried, and succeeded with several other buggiers. Yet, I refuse to get sucked into an argument of OPINION!!! I have presented logical, experienced, rules based answers to your concerns. Only, you DON'T want to accept those answers. You continue on with unrealistic scenarios and speculation. It is impossible to DISCUSS racing with you. You have YOUR OPINION and the experience of others are of no use to you. That is NOT a discussion, it's hubris to think it is.

For all those reading, we are referring to the thread at http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=9666

If one is to read that thread, Richard feels (I believe honestly) that I have insulted him there. Readers can read the thread as they wish and make their own conclusion. I encourage everyone to read that thread.

In that thread there are logical problems laid out with the right of way rules in fisly. I have apologized for making a mistake in the timing/interpretation in waiting for a reply to the thread.

If the fisly rules are based on opinion (as it appears Richard is conceding above) and can be manipulated, they shouldn't be used. The point by point critique of the fisly rules are based on the rules and realistic scenarios, not opinion. Again, I encourage everyone to read the thread and decide for themselves.

I hope Brian didn't take any offense at my reaction to horns !

Fact is people like me put the kite down and get out of the way. People like Rip want to get out in front of them and shoot for speed records.

Some people go to race.

Some go to learn.

Some go, just for the fun !


DEAN puts TON'S of time and energy into this important event. I don't see him actively trying to put anybody down.

I DO find that racing and pissing matches seem to go hand in hand. The #1 reason I avoid this part of the sport.

Cut Dean a break ! If you want to " return " NABX to some former glory then help him out or stay out of his way. You have all year to discuss this but seem to annualy throw a wrench at the system ???

Seriously, it's no problem.

I would just ask this. If you really think i'm out of line, call, or write me.

Some of my friends at Burning Man have a tube. This is a true story. Often after i speak to someone, and often in a leadership role, they are seriously perplexed. That's when the tube comes out, and someone that knows me long time comes over, puts the tube to the persons ear, and says something like " what dean is trying to say...."

So, i know i don't always come across clearly. I work on this all the time. I'm not wedded to my opinion. I can be swayed by facts.

I'm super happy that any sort of discussion about the event is taking place.

Participation IS what this event is all about.

Thank you.

Alpha Omega X-Ray Omega out.

Quote:

Originally posted by heliboy50 Hey Dean- I'm off the soap box now and sorry the crappy post. I just felt like Brian was being criticized for having concerns for peoples safety. I really shouldn't post when I am all ready grumpy You guys put in a lot of work to host this event and it shows. I will do as others told me and use the code over the phone. Again, sorry for the crappy tone of the post. See you all there!

Back to the original poster and the topic.....

Bring all your gear, prepare to be "buggy" schooled in every way imaginable - prepare to have the most fun you have ever had learning how to buggy and meeting new people that you never would have imagined existed.

I always have plenty of gear - not to mention will have our Ivanpah buggies there for people to try out. I am sure if you are lacking something in the power department, there will be plenty of people there that can help you out.

NABX is not totally about the sport or about showing off to the masses, but more about coming together as a group of like minded people to enjoy this awesome sport that we all love.

While the very FEW people will sit and #@%$#! about what rules they want to use, myself and the majority of everyone there will be out on the playa enjoying the best buggying in North America with the best company.

Now to throw the cards on the table.........................................................

Honestly Steve and Bison....this argument has gone on for YEARS!!!!
My opinion (which will surely get me in serious trouble with both of you) is that you need to park the debate and just ride.

The FISLY rules were adopted by NAPKRA because at this time, they are the best rules for what the NAPKRA is trying to accomplish. The rules are NOT written in stone - and NAPKRA is governed by its members. If there is a better way to do it then make the suggestion and if the majority agrees, NAPKRA will RE-WRITE THE RULES to reflect the MAJORITY of its members. Having this continuous pissing match between the two of you will only make a large puddle and nothing will be settled.

You both love racing....you both want to have races....you both are very accomplished racers who are obviously very competitive. Lets figure out a solution that both of you will be happy with and go racing!

I say lets all just go with the rules the way they are now and if we come into situations that don't work, we'll solve those problems at that time. At least we can go racing! Even NASCAR is CONSTANTLY making rule changes to their organization and they have been holding sanctioned races and seasons for over 50 years! Nothing we do right now will be perfect and we will always need to make changes to the system (rules) as new technologies and situations come up. Lets just roll with it now and as the racing goes on, we can tweak, adjust and change it as needed to make it better.

You've heard the saying "Don't throw out the baby with the bath water". Well, lets not damn the whole NAPKRA idea just because there is one hypothetical problem. Instead, lets roll with it, use it, and work with everyone involved to make it better. The two of you working together could bring racing back to not only NABX but everywhere and in awesome form. But if you keep bashing your heads together it will never happen.

Dean has always said that he welcomes racing at NABX, he just needs people like yourselves to step up to the plate and organize / run the racing as he cant do it all himself. I would like to challenge the two of you to get together and organize some racing - I think it is what both of you want anyways. Personally, I could care less on what rules we use as long as I get to race. Maybe we can come together and have a FISLNABX race. Again, don't care, lets race!!!!

----------------------------------- now to wait for the real flaming to begin. Where's my Nomex fire suit?


Regardless on the racing issues... I will be at NABX having another awesome time with all my buggy bretheren.

Here here. And I wish I could join you at NABX. But it's probably just as well I can't, I'd test one of those Ivanpah buggies and then be forced to buy one :D.

Thanks Kent, and well said.

We do have the team put together for racing this year. Blake Pelton will head it, so Steve and Bison are free to ride. We can see who is faster on the playa in that way!

If you'd like to brush up on our rules, please make sure you read the part before the rules begin.

We actually have used these rules for 20 years! No kidding! They do work, and they work especially well for us.

Racing Rules for NABX 2010

seeking aoxo~!