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Jovver
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 09:53 AM
SolidWorks Models


So I set a goal to model up my own buggy in SolidWorks. I already have a decent frame done and began to think about different options I could do with wheels and whatnot. To all of you guys that have designed your own buggies, did you make a 3d model of it using some kind of CAD software first? Also, does anyone know of any way I can get models of different hubs and tires so that I don't have to mock them up myself?
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 10:29 AM


I've done some cad work for some buggy guys, but haven't done a full buggy yet. I've been thinking more and more of a custom buggy lately though. Wheels and most other buggy parts are quick and easy in 3-d. It's the side rails that are more difficult. You really don't need the details built into the 3d model for wheels and things, just the basic dimensions to reflect ride position and seat height above the floor. I'm an autocad guy btw.



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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 10:51 AM


Yeah I guess it wouldn't be too big of a deal to make the hubs and tires as well, just thought it would save a bit of time. BB, have you ever tried using SolidWorks? The 3d modeling is so user friendly. I used Autocad back in HS for a drafting class, but used Solidworks throughout college and now almost every day at work. So it's nothing special right now, but here's what I have so far. I'm most likely going to have to change dimensions once I figure out what wheels to use. The fork will be interesting as well if I want adjustment of foot pegs and front wheel axle.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 11:48 AM


Nothing wrong with Solidworks, I've just never had access to the software. I was a cad instructor using Autocad products for years and then worked for a land developer using Civil 3d and autocad. I'm now an independent contractor but my software is supplied by the land developer. When at the CC, I had the full suite of software products for AutoCad including inventor, but never had time or reason to dive into it.

Nice work on your buggy so far. Keep us posted on your progress.



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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 01:08 PM


Well it was a kind of slow day at work today so I was able to sink a few hours into this. The rear axle went through a bit of a change. The frame was extended, and the rear axle is now angled and returns to horizontal before the wheel mount. Here's the final product so far!

Front:

Pic removed.

Rear:

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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 01:09 PM


Have to see it from the top to be sure, but that axle looks short to me.



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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 01:18 PM


Sure thing Maven, that rear axle is currently just under 62" wide.

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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 01:23 PM


Longer than it looked from the rear quarter.



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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 01:27 PM


Yeah the whole thing looks small because its all about perspective, it's hard to visualize how big it actually is because it's just a 3d model floating in open space. Its a really big bug though, you can kind of estimate the rest of the sizing based on proportion to the rear axle. The front axle is 12" wide and the side rails are like 24" apart. I guess I was kinda going for the standard Flexi bug just blown up a bit for us big guys.
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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 01:33 PM


Right, I was more thinking about proportions, but with the top view added in, I realized that those were better than I thought.



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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 02:05 PM


Playing with some colors:

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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 02:45 PM


Nice. Curious why the bend in the axle? (as opposed to the side-rails coming down to meet a straight axle)



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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 02:49 PM


That's my thought too. You are going to the trouble to bend the axle to come up and bend the rear of your side rails to come up and to what advantage? Like Angus said, keep your axle straight and send your side rails straight down to it. You're making me want to finish the bug I have started now.



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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 03:22 PM


Jeez when I took drafting in HS it was with a T-square and a #2 pencil. That CAD stuff is cool.



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[*] posted on 3-2-2010 at 07:18 PM


So are you going to print that out with a 3-d printer? Just messing with you - nice design system - quick and efficient. With some clamps coming off the frame to the axle those angles on the axle will come in handy to adjust the height for different sized tires. Just loosen the clamp and rotate the axle. Longer on the axle will work better too - 5' 6" is good 6' is better. Also 2' from seat to axle helps stabilize for slides. Think about the curves in your bug in terms of how difficult they will be to actually make. An angle bent is easier than a curve achieved. Right now on my bug I am trying to utilize a clamping system for the down tube where it connects to the frame by using something similar to a latch found on a tool box. I figure 2 of these will create even tension over the clamping area - and be much easier to apply and disengage compared to the bolting system (4 bolts in a very awkward location) that I am currently using.



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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 03:44 AM


I have never had the luxury of 3d models, or being able to CAD....so I have to do what I can do, and that is draw a full scale layout on the floor, plan and side elevation, this helps when it comes to bending the tube and keeping everything square when you start to fix the side rails to the axle, and swan neck to the front end.

I have used an axle similar to yours, http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder?g=50016016 although mine is in the horizontal position or just slightly lowered, you have to make very strong clamps to hold this though, I also use the same clamping system on the Dominators.

Always interesting to see new idea and how they evolve, keep plugging at it



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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 03:57 AM


Mine uses a drop axle and integrated spacer on a vertical plate with go-kart hubs. 5/8" X 6" bolt through the hub holds it on. I'm not a real big fan of internally threaded rear axles, mostly I think because of my complete inability to get threaded inserts welded in squarely. I also prefer the way I did it as I think it is easier to get a bent axle bolt out and I don't have to worry about damaging internal threads. That's what's fun about this kind of topic though- seeing what others come up with.



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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 04:34 AM


WOW I just took some old pipe I had put it in the bender and played around till I had something that would work for me. What you have takes all the guess work out of it and is really cool.
So you can do more than look at kites and email on computers? :eureka:



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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 08:13 AM


Wow guys, thanks for all the comments and suggestions. It's really what I like to hear so that I can make my designs better. (although sometimes it feels like I should wear a steel cup before every design review session) :rolleyes:

A lot of you have been commenting on the angled rear axle... the reasoning behind this was to just try something different. This project is just that... a project. I don't plan on making this thing for a while, as the money is not there and I don't have any welding experience or the resources to learn. It's just really nice that I can simply tweak my CAD drawing by changing a few dimensions and seeing the result within moments.


Quote:

I have used an axle similar to yours, http://pic7.piczo.com/Popeyethewelder?g=50016016 although mine is in the horizontal position or just slightly lowered, you have to make very strong clamps to hold this though, I also use the same clamping system on the Dominators.


I knew I saw that axle somewhere! And yes, I did consider how the axle would be mounted. I was thinking maybe the frame could just be welded to the axle that way I don't have to worry about clamps? Granted this would give the rear axle a fixed position, but would that be so bad if I plan on staying with a single set of wheels? I will also have to figure out some way to adjust the down tube, as the swan neck is currently fixed to the frame.


Quote:

So are you going to print that out with a 3-d printer? Just messing with you


Lol, that would be absolutely ridiculous, but insanely awesome at the same time. I should push for a 3d printer here at work!


Quote:

So you can do more than look at kites and email on computers? :eureka:


Lol, absolutely! If that's all I did, I would have tried to go professional with the kiting thing. Although I am on the forum most of the day because work allows internet access, and as long as I get my stuff done, no one says otherwise.


As for all the comments about the curves in the frame... I realize now that having so many is not really feasible, I was just trying to make it streamline without so many angled bends and aesthetically pleasing. Good thing it's just a model and the first one for this project. I also realized (thanks to rckmac123) that the swan neck needs an angle on the pivot point of the forks to allow for some camber to make steering much better.

I am going to take a lot of your suggestions and mock up another one when I get the time. Thanks again for all the compliments and suggestions. You guys are great!
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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 08:17 AM


Also, if anyone could give me some good dimensions of different sized hubs and tires, that would be greatly appreciated. (I can't seem to find any more dimensions other than bearing diameters and total diameter) The ones in the model I made up completely on educated guesses with the dimensions.
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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 08:37 AM


A common size for hubs are 8" dia x 4" wide. They will frequently take the following size tires...

16 x 4.5 x 8
16 x 6.5 x 8
21 x 12 x 8



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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 08:41 AM


Perfect Angus, that helps a ton! Are the 21" ones the Bigfoots?
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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 09:02 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by Jovver
Are the 21" ones the Bigfoots?


yep



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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 11:26 AM


Alright guys take a look at Buggy Rev1. Longer, straight frame, angled fork pivot point, improved back rest, wider axle, and new rims with accurately sized Big Foot tires! Surprisingly, the adjustments didn't take too long to do, the tires and rims took the majority of my time. All was done in about 2 hrs because I am very picky about stuff.

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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 05:04 PM


Looking good - here's something to think about - for the points where certain parts come together (frame to axle, down tube to frame) you could add little dialogue boxes that could have blow ups of these joiners/clamps. It's good to be prepared to add these things in your design layout to begin with or otherwise they can be a bear to work around later on.



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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 05:24 PM


Yeah, I was wondering is this gonna be one piece ? Or bolt together parts?



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[*] posted on 5-2-2010 at 06:29 AM


I do not really know at this point whether or not it is going to be one piece. Obviously for portability, bolt together pieces would be ideal. My thoughts are some sort of clamp for the rear axle, then some sort of bolt together system for the swan neck. Or I could leave the swan neck attached, and just take the fork off when transporting it. There are several different options I could go with. I do like the idea of the dialogue boxes though, but I may just end up mocking the clamps up and adding them to the assembly. I'll definitely keep you guys updated.
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[*] posted on 5-2-2010 at 07:29 AM


My advice would be carry your rails higher at the front sides to brace your thighs against, at the moment, there is nothing there and its surprising how much you use your thighs



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[*] posted on 5-2-2010 at 07:48 AM


All that 3-d cad stuff is definately impressive:wow:. I have trouble working my cell phone. I hope no one does away with the old pencil and paper technology cause I'd be screwed. Nice work though:thumbup::thumbup:
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[*] posted on 5-2-2010 at 06:23 PM


Here are some rough drawings of an axle clamp that I have used - very easy to change the axle pitch. You could also remove your axle by making it split with an inner sleeve and locking bolt.


This is the clamp I use for the down tube, one problem that I have been having is that the 2 bolts inside the frame towards the seat are a little tricky to tighten - but the unit works well overall.


Here is an idea I had to replace the above clamp with 2 clamps similar to those found on tool boxes, would need an extra pin or something to keep the main tab from getting accidentally "popped".




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