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Author: Subject: Here Comes the MARK V
flexiblade
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[*] posted on 17-2-2010 at 10:14 PM
Here Comes the MARK V


Been rebuilding the bug since this last weekend. Bent the side rails, made a new clamp box with 2 flip latches, and removed the axle clamps from the old frame and attached to the new. Sorry the pictures are rather junky - were taken with my IPhone instead of a real digital camera - my old camera got sand from the beach in it and was never the same afterwards.







I should be getting the seat material tomorrow - so part of the weekend should be spent sewing - we'll see.



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[*] posted on 17-2-2010 at 10:48 PM


what kind of seat material did you order...and are those clamps strong..they worry me

the thing is looking fantastical have you done a weighted stress test on it yet?

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[*] posted on 17-2-2010 at 10:59 PM


Very Nice Flexi!. You switching to stainless now?



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[*] posted on 17-2-2010 at 11:46 PM


Steel - How about a closeup on the back axle attachment. Nice work. Stretched ride. What are you using for fork pivot bearings?
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[*] posted on 18-2-2010 at 12:21 AM


Cool :thumbup:



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[*] posted on 18-2-2010 at 01:18 AM


Coming along nicely FB, I too worry about the strength of those clamps, there are tremendous torsional forces around that area. What size is the wire loop that catches on the hook, and what are they made of....3-4mm....that's really not much. I think they will stretch in time.

Just go steady when testing, but also keep a check on corrosion of those hoops over time



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[*] posted on 18-2-2010 at 08:59 AM


Definitely will be cautious about these latches. The loops are about 1/8" thick bent rod - not of the highest quality. This is really a test of an idea that I had a little while back - so far they are working, mind you they haven't been given a proper shake down, but I'm also not nearly done. I plan on replacing them with some custom beefed up versions of my own making - I'm just focusing all my attention on getting the rig together. They are right on the surface of the clamp so they can be easily removed. Just looked at the photographs up top again and realized that they really don't do the latches justice - here are some design specs.

The wall thickness for the plates coming in contact with the side rails is a 1/4" the top and bottom plates are 1/8" thick





They are pretty tight when coming together so there is no slop in any directional movement when the latch is engaged.

Not stainless - 1 1/4" mild steel with a 3/16" wall thickness. Was $38 for 20' - stainless was quoted to me for $12.50 a linear foot. That would have been roughly $250 for the full 20' or $125 just for the frame. I opted for the $19 steel.

The forks are from the old lazy boy, which used 1 5/8" bearing housings with proper rubber seals. These are solid nearly bombproof bearings that I picked up from VXB bearings.

The side rails are heavily tack welded to the axle clamps for the time being - I will finish those welds tonight and post the picks. I haven't been able to do any stress test because of this - I did lean on it a few times and she's got a pretty hefty feel to her already.



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[*] posted on 18-2-2010 at 09:20 AM


Here's some earlier shots of the flip latch - I had welded on part of one of the latches to reinforce it - subsequent to the photo it has been cleaned up.







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[*] posted on 18-2-2010 at 09:46 AM


Very nice. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Heading for the steel yard today for my 2nd. Might even get a go on the venom tomorrow, too.



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[*] posted on 18-2-2010 at 10:41 AM


Flexi, how are you bending your tubing? You have your own stuff, access to someone elses or do you have it done?



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[*] posted on 18-2-2010 at 09:09 PM


I'm using a hand pump hydraulic pipe bender that I picked up at harbor freight for about $90. A couple of things that I learned about using one of these -

1. tape off one end of the pipe you are going to bend with heavy duct tape giving it a good seal, then fill the pipe with damp sand - packing as you go to force out any air bubbles. Tape off the exposed end of the pipe with the sand topped off. This will help eliminate getting flat spots on the tops of your bends.

2. use a heavy rag folded a few times over each of the rollers that assist in the bending - if you don't they tend to create large dents in the pipe where they come in contact.

3. the shaped pipe holders that actually create the bends in the pipe can be a little bit of a tight fit onto the pipe causing scratches along the sides of the pipe as it is being bent - becomes difficult to remove as well after the pipe has been bent. Taking a grinder to round off the top edges of these parts eliminates scratches and makes the part come off the pipe a lot easier.



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[*] posted on 18-2-2010 at 09:39 PM


Here's what I got done today - finished welding both the rear axle clamps to the frame, and finished welded the headtube clamp to the frame.

Axle clamps tacked -



Welded -



Cleaned up -



The Down tube clamp welded and partially cleaned up - I was getting tired -



And some of the frame all together - I did a stress test - ready for dropping off a roof -



And here's a shot of the seat fabric I got today - 330 Denier Supplex Cordura - waterproof, durable, and kick ass matt black -





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[*] posted on 19-2-2010 at 06:17 AM


Flexi, I also discovered the sand method for bending my rails. It works great. And free!!
By the way is that a glass beader in the top photos? Or sand blasting cabinet? Either way nice work.



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[*] posted on 19-2-2010 at 08:13 PM


I had the same problem with roller marks with the bender- thanks for the tip there. I am threading the ends of the pipe, capping, and filling with compressed air for bending. Less mess in my limited work space. Looking good, BTW.



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[*] posted on 19-2-2010 at 10:04 PM


The cabinet is for both bead blasting (silver pieces) and sand blasting (bronze work and buggy parts).

Did the capping of the ends and filling with air work? Curious.



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[*] posted on 19-2-2010 at 11:51 PM


Still in process. Couple of mechanics and an engineer at work say it works fine. 80+ hour work weeks are crimping my time a bit. I'll be giving it a shot Sunday and let you know.



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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 01:23 AM


I am curious about all this filling with sand and air etc, are you guys just bending without and kind of machine, yes I have done that sort of thing before when I have had to bend a copper tube, I was making a coil for a heat treatment machine, but thats the only time, I am not using anything hi tech in my garage just a portable hand hydraulic bender, I have never had any problem with kinking sched 10 and certainly not sched 40 tube.

I use one of these, it was dead cheap brand new




One thing I used to get though and have sorted that problem out was, I slight indent on the back of the bend where the tube had been forced against the two black stays. I got around that by finding some offcut pieces of tube the next size up from what I was bending, cut pieces about 100-150mm long, and then cut the tube in half length ways, until you have two half pieces of tube...clean them up .

Now you have two formers to place between your tube and the black stays, and guess what....no more dints in the tube.



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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 02:43 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by flexiblade


I reckon you shouldn't leave your smuggled diamonds lying on your stealthy black cloth before taking pics but that's just me :lol:

Nice work :thumbup:



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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 04:41 AM


I'm using the same type of bender and I get some distortion like flattening of the outer radius (not much, but some.) I also thought that filling the pipe may help with the roller dents. I guess the filling thing comes from working with other materials that tend to kink rather than bend smoothly.



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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 06:16 AM


I have an older ridgid mechanical ratchet bender. Tends to kink the inner edge of the bend. So the sand just holds everything in shape.



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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 07:23 AM


sand works for copper, that is the only material that needs it.If you are kinking the pipe you are not using the bender properly. Air will not work as it can compress. All benders will distort the pipe some ,unless you use one of those newfangled cpu controlled compression roller bender. But they are thousands of dollars, but ya get what ya pay for.
Roc, that sounds like a tubing bender you are using, it is for conduit and copper plumbing

FB, I see you have been busy. Me too, I just about got my stainless bug finished. ( will post pics later)
Back off of the amps! Your weld is burnt,that means carbide precipitate is in your crystalline structure. NOT GOOD,A proper stainless weld wil be a goldish/ reddish color w/ some bright blue is ok( will go get a pic) , but when it gets that dark dull look is is burnt and what we call "crystalized". Stainless takes way low heat and as it gets hotter you have to turn down the heat some more. Never let the parent metal get over 400'F degrees ,at that temp the carbide thing starts to happen. Remember LOW AND SLOW. Sorry for the criticism, but it will make you better.:thumbup:
I had to do the same thing to my dies cause they were scarring up the pipe.It is not the best bender but w/ a little patience it can get r done.
heliboy, fill w/ sand and tamp it good. The idea is to make the pipe semi-solid, so it will bend but not get so out of round. Don't even waste your time w/ compressed air. Besides the obvious danger , it won't work.

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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 10:43 AM


Yes that is just what it is. Works great with copper pipe and very thin walled mild steel. But the material I used for my buggy was a bit to thick walled so it was easy to kink. But the sand totaly cured the issue. But you are right about mis-use. Not recomended. But it is what I have in my shop.



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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 10:43 AM


That is a pretty weld there weldingod - yeah I was running my welds a bit hot - after the 11th hour of being in the shop I get a bit impatient and try and speed my welds up , bad idea. I'll slow it down for the remainder. Looks like your going for a square tubing for the frame?

Exactly the same pipe bender popeye - chinese special - does the job. Great idea on making shields for the pipe to avoid denting on the pressure areas. There are still some mild creasing occurring at the bend on the armpit of the curve - very mild and practically unnoticeable - doesn't look like it will affect the overall stability of the structure.



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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 11:06 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by flexiblade


Exactly the same pipe bender popeye - chinese special - does the job. Great idea on making shields for the pipe to avoid denting on the pressure areas. There are still some mild creasing occurring at the bend on the armpit of the curve - very mild and practically unnoticeable - doesn't look like it will affect the overall stability of the structure.


Then if you are using sched 10 or even better sched 40, you wont need and sand....like WG and I said earlier, that set up is mainly for thin copper tube.

Yes it is a Chinese special, I needed a 1 1/2" former for my older bender and that cost as much as that bender with ALL the formers lol

From your first photos it looks like you have made a good job of your bending, it is an art form getting the bends right on a buggy frame, and everyone you do you learn from, dead easy bending one side, to get the perfect opposite hand is another matter and many folks trip up at that stage. The buggy I am working on now has 7 bends in each rail lol....try that one out.

@WG interesting to hear you are making a stainless buggy, I look forward to seeing the finished result.



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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 12:10 PM


You could always get one of these. :) Lovely machine.







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[*] posted on 20-2-2010 at 12:43 PM


Very nice. But if I had the money to RENT one of those mechines I could buy a buggy!! Don't get me wrong. I enjoy building things. But I primarily built my buggy from scaps I had in the yard because I didn't have the expendible funds to buy one.
But I could have some fun with those tools. And a better welder like a tig would be sweet!
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[*] posted on 25-2-2010 at 10:07 PM


OK - so I've been a tad busy - first I want to say I am not a seamstress and that trying to make my seat may have been a mistake. How much were your seats from buggybags Popeye? I'm sure they were much more reasonable than the horrible time that I've had. Here's some pics of what I've been up to. -

Started the seat with the customary stiff craft paper model - this worked well letting me do small adjustments to design in a safe way, that and its just paper and tape.



Next used my paper patterns to make the cutouts of my seat material. This was actually 3 pieces with the side panels sewn on to maximize my material - minimizing waste.



Then I laid out the reinforcement material, in this case seatbelt strapping, and sewed them onto the seat material. Immediately following the straps were the female clips which are just looped strapping sewn into the reinforcing material.



At this point I started laying out the foam pads, which are a rubberized foam - nice and soft with some girth to them to help really pad out the seat.



This is were I ran into a problem - trying to sew the surface of the seat (the second cutout of the original patterns with the foam sandwiched in between) became a real hassle - I am going to try some tests at work tomorrow with some industrial silicone - bonding the pad to the fabric with the reinforcements and then siliconeing the surface pieces of fabric to the foam and the other half of the seat material. I then just need to work on binding the seat rest to the side panels and finish it off with a boarder sewn with strapping. Hope this works.



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[*] posted on 25-2-2010 at 10:31 PM


Here's the frame so far with some personal adaptations for compacting a race buggy into something that can fit into my Honda accord trunk. And yes Weldingod - I burned my welds again - am just not that patient a welder - I did turn down the amperage (110) but held the weld for too long trying to minimize work time. When it comes down to it though this thing does not take the pressures and strains of say a car frame - so any crystalizing deformation that may occur from my burned welds has not really compromised the strength of the structure - I was literally jumping up and down on the down tube clamp and the frame and all are solid.

Here is the back rest bent and then welded in place.



The next step was a little tricky to do at this stage. I cut the frame with a chop saw right behind the seat, taking off the the 2 parts of the frame going down to the axle clamps. I then used 1' pieces of 1/8" walled pipe that sleeves perfectly into the frame tube. Drilled a hole on the seat side of the frame to be able to permanently attach the sleeves by welding the sleeve onto the frame through the hole.



I then drilled a hole through both the frame and the sleeve near the end of the sleeve heading down towards the axle clamp. Into the hole in the sleeve a put a bolt with a nut on the interior - I then welded the nut in place and backed out the bolt completely. Now I can take the whole back end of the buggy off with only having to remove 2 bolts instead of the 4 from the last buggy. The bolts are much easier to access than the mark IV design.







The Axle comes apart in a similar manner with a sleeve and a bolt. So to set it up I start with first putting the axle halves together and tightening the sleeve nut. The axle clamps from the frame will stay clamped onto the axle at all times unless I need to do some maintenance to them. I then slide the frame sleeves into the axle clamp ends and tighten the 2 sleeve nuts. The front end then slides into its clamp, which I will probably be changing to a 2 bolt clamp with the bolts on the underside of the clamp, the Flip latches did end up loosening up and moving while in a locked position - oh well later on a will have to make some heavy duty ones. For right now I just want to get this thing done.



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[*] posted on 26-2-2010 at 12:32 AM


Lookin' Very nice. The seat is definately a time consuming part. Not looking foreward to my next one. I used cotton duck, sewed it, turned it inside out and filled it with quilt batting. I didn't do any internal bracing but rather opted for more straps.



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[*] posted on 26-2-2010 at 01:24 PM


looks great ...for your sewing you have to do a lot of bunching to get at those hard to reach spots which can be difficult when its bulky material.....but heres something to consider...outside of the occasional bottom out.... the seat you have so far is pretty darn good even without the padding...its like a hammock for a sitting position it should still be comfy...and the seatbelt stuff is strong enough......

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