Hi all, my first post! Hope you can help

I have a good friend who kite surfs and I've kind of been hooked on the idea for a couple years but never tried it - partially due to the fact I live about as far from the coast as its possible to get and partially due to cost and the fact the british weather sucks.

Anyway, I'd been talking to my gf about trying kite land-boarding (I used to be a keen skater) and was thinking about buying a new kite and some kit. Anyway, a couple of weeks ago it was my 34th (gasp) birthday and to my delight Lisa (gf) produced a Ozone Flow 4m with handles and kite killers. I was so surprised - the girl done good!

Since then work has been really busy (self employed and working silly hours) and I just haven't had chance to try it out, but now things are back to normal I'm itching to get going. My plan is to master the kite before I even consider stepping on a board or climbing in a buggy.

After reading everything here I'm nearly convinced that my flow 4m is too big and I risk injury / not enjoying myself etc etc. Safe to say I'm a little apprehensive.

So my question is this, as a 12.5 stone, 34 year old who's relatively fit, should I not even consider trying to fly my birthday kite? Should I down-grade to a 2 or 3 meter kite, or do you think if I stick to relatively light winds and take it easy I'll be able to get to grips with the 4m flow okay? and then build up wind speed a little?

I have no experience of traction or 4 line kites, but years experience of stunt kites, and a little sailing (if thats any use?!) so know a little about the wind and can feel the different power in the various zones of the sky.

All the advice I've read on here (great forums btw) make me think I should get to grips with a 3m first, but I already have the 4m.
What should I do?

Any help hugely appreciated!
Cheers
Stef

At 175 pounds, you are probably okay as long as you are very careful about what winds you take it out in. I'd start in maybe 8-10 mph (12-16kph) until you have a really good feel for it. You might consider picking up a smaller Flow (if you've got the spare cash), but I'd wouldn't trade in the 4m to get it, you're likely to need the 4m as well, once you've got experience. As long as you're properly safety conscious (read paranoid), you can learn on a 4m.

P.S. Welcome to the forum!

P.P.S. Congrats on getting an Ozone, they're fantastic!!! She's got good taste.

Those are the better birthday gifts!

4m isn't too big, just make sure you start in the low end of it's windrange to get your controls dialed in.
Generally smaller kites are somewhat more "nervous" in the sky, 3 or 4m is the best size to start on, and since you're living inland 4m is the ticket (less wind inland then on the coast)

Enjoy the muscles you're going to feel!

Thanks for the quick replies guys!

I'm glad you gave the answers you did - I think Lisa would be slightly disappointed if I had to trade it in without even flying it.

My reckless days are long gone - too many broken bones and torn muscles from skating and snowboarding mishaps - so I plan to take it as easy as I can at first.

I'll definitely only be flying in very light winds and not venturing too far from the zenith or edges of the window until I have some experience and feel confident, but have to say I'm still somewhat nervous / paranoid about been taken by a sudden gust and face planted several meters away. I guess its inevitable its going to happen a some point though!

I think the first few times up I'll be pretty heavy on the break lines and hope I don't need to use the kite killers too much, but then they're there for a reason.

I now feel a strange mixture of extreme nervousness and excitement. Looking forward to the weekend and hopefully some perfect beginner weather! I'll let you know how it goes.

btw, apart from 'get some lessons', anyone have any invaluable basic tips / advice for a first timer? (hopefully not final words as I still plan to be walking afterwards! )

Get some knee and elbow pads. And a brain bucket (helmet). Other than that... Angus has some lovely tutorials.

And let go - frequently. One of the first instincts that's gonna get you is the "hold on for dear life" reaction. Let go of the kite and see what the killers do and how they do what they do. And then do it frequently. You'll possibly find yourself developing a grip that is enough to do what you want to do when YOU want to do it yet will allow the handles to rip from your hands in a gust yanks them.

What I mean to say is you'll hold on tight when you're doing something intentionally that requires you to hold on tight. The rest of the time it'll be a bit more relaxed grip so a gust is less likely to yank you - it'll just take the kite from you.

thanks again -

Maven454: Pads and lid, most definitely... makes sense. will pick up some this week.

Macboy: "hold on for dear life" made me laugh out loud, though only because I've tried water skiing a few times and know all about that.... coming off the ski's at speed but instinctively hanging onto the tow-bar for dear life, whilst my eyes, ears, nose and mouth get pumped full of water as I get dragged along by the boat! Great advice though to try and develop a counter intuitive grip though, so thanks

Welcome!

Discretion is the better.... whatever.. lol

You will know in a hurry if the wind is too high your first couple of times out, and like its been said... learn to let go! thats what kite killers are for. start slow, and everything should work out well... baby steps hurt a lot less if you do get in a bind. If you ever get the feeling, esp early on, "man, i'm kinda nervous or i'm not sure this is a good idea" consider packing it in for another day... at least till you learn the kite's characteristics.

Good presents are always a welcomed sight tho... i got a Phantom from my lady last b-day

Post pics and vids, those are always cool! Any thoughts on a board or a bug?

Wow, wish I had a lady like that... giving away Phannies.
excuse the hyjack, I'll go sleep now.

i could make a really bad joke about that one!

I need to not make a joke I am loosing the power to not make a joke

I really don't think the 4m flow is too much. It is a pretty tame kite. With that said, keep it to lighter winds for your learning period and you shouldn't have any problems.

Get to know your kite very well and how to control it without looking before you take to the board. There are alot of other factors to think about on the board that you will need to look where you are going alot and not so much at the kite. nothing like watching your pretty kite fly through the air as you smack a small tree or pole or something.

It wouldn't hurt you to get a smaller kite to learn on. You can always use it when the wind kicks up.

Hey Stef!
Fill in your location in your user profile so we can make jokes about where your from :D

A 4m kite will spank you bad if you disrespect it but you've obviously got some common sense if you're planning to master the kite before trying other stuff ... and your 2-line experience WILL come in handy!

Best advice is to go out in lighter winds and be prepared for some frustration if it's too light, but you know that
Get used to letting the kite drag you (scudding) and controlling the power. Gear (helmet, elbow/knee pads) are always a good idea and I'd suggest wrist guards too

IMO kite killers are necessary for your and other people's safety - also, untangling a kite that's all wrapped around itself is a lot less hassle than calling the power company. Don't be afraid to let go and have the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s catch the kite ... you won't prang it up like you would a stunter! But be aware that they're hard to get out of - don't go out in too much wind thinking the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s will save you

Otherwise - welcome to the mad house! Hide your credit card :eekdrull:

Thanks again guys...

Location details filled in.... fire away... do your worst! :D

okay, as a true beginner I'm a little concerned, but up for the challenge. I realise I have a lot to learn!

I don't mind been pulled around, but also don't want to feel like I am totally out of control. With practice and a little skill will I be able fly around (and park) the kite without being pulled all over the place out of control, or will I be at the mercy of the elements all of the time?
At the end of the day, a challenge is good, but this is supposed to be fun and not a death ride, right?

Obviously with the right conditions, and gusts of wind and mistakes etc aside, I'd like to be able to pretty much choose when I'm yanked across the field or when I skud (more likely superman at first). I'm guessing once I've learnt control, its about choosing when to go low in the center of the window and that kinda thing?

In very light winds I'm not expecting to leave the ground at all, well hopefully not too much.... is this a safe assumption?

Will I be able to take a few minutes out to chill and just fly around the edges of the window without a fight / struggle?

Sorry for all the questions, and apprehension, but I want to be as prepared as possible... I don't really know what to expect and would hate to have a bad experience on my first attempt.


p.s. Kamikuza, I've just noticed how any kites you have... thats a serious amount of foil! So if I get hooked I guess I'm going to be penniless from here on out!

Part of having control is simply learning what size kite you should be using for the current wind condition. What you're attempting to do with the kite also has a bearing on what the correct size is for the current wind. If you're using the kite to buggy or board, you can use a larger kite than you would if you are simply standing and flying static. The down side to learning on a 4m kite is that the amount of power it can produce will wear you out faster when flying static. However, since you're already familiar with flying stunters, that will help tremendously.

You should be able to control whether the kite is pulling you across the field or not by where you have the kite in the wind window. If it's pulling you uncontrollably across the field, you're likely out in too much wind.

In light winds you shouldn't have any problem staying on the ground. Particularly with the Flow as it is not a high lift kite.

Don't worry about Kamikuza's kite collection too much, he's a true addict and likes to buy everything that someone puts up for sale on the forum :D. I'm sure he'd have far more kites if he didn't have to pay for all that shipping to Japan.

Hey bud,

Nice to see more UK kiters on here. Its a really great forum and a perfect place for friendly advice and banter.

So i reckon the the next best thing to a girlfriend who kites is a girlfriend who buys you kites !!

I think you are fine with a 4m at 12.5 st. I weigh 11 st and learned all my basics on a flexifoil Bullet which i now anly fly when its 30mph. + the bullet is more aggressive than a flow. you are still gonna get pulled over but that is part of learning - not the kites fault.

You may learn kite control quick with something small but for landboarding you need to be powered up so you will make the transition quicker when you get on wheels.

Watch some instructional vids on youtube etc. get a powerkite DVD. We have one of the best kiteshops anywhere in the UK - (Powerkiteshop) and they do their own DVD which is awesome. They are in Birmingham if you are up that way.

Snowboarding will help much more than skateboarding but the kite adds a whole new dimension!! it will also hurt more than snowboarding but less than skating - unless you do it in carparks!

Be prepared to take some hard knocks and wear pads and helmet.

I started at about the same age as you and i have never looked back. Take it easy for your first couple of sessions and make sure you understand how everything works. fly in 08-12mph on your first go. Wait until the conditions say "go kiting" not your schedule.

Pommy git

Think of scudding as skiing without skis :D it's useful to get used to cos it'll happen a lot and you're WAY better off sliding than trying to run after the kite downwind! If you don't want to be pulled around, you'll have to go out in wind that's not worth flying in Eventually you'll want to get on a board or buggy though so you better get used to the power of the wind.

Controlling the kite is understanding the wind window, being able to put it where you want for the effect you want and anticipating what's coming and reacting. That's where the practice comes in and experience. There's no substitute for it!

Put good wind and some experience together, and you'll get hauled around - but it's damned fun! And very addictive

As for my kite collection - I KNOW that it's not a tenth of what some people on here have ... ask Angus how many Rev's he's got now
My excuse is that we've got easy money at the moment (hardly any expenses) and the exchange rate to the US makes things so cheap it's mad NOT to buy and store for a rainy day
A new kite in Japan from a dealer is about 150,000yen or about US$1,700 .... cos when they imported it the exchange rate was borked. Now, I can buy 2 kites and a bar/line set from the US - and ship it here - for the same price :o

And anyway - I sold a few kites :D

Congrats Kami, that may be the most emoticons I've ever seen in one post that didn't simply consist of a bunch of emoticons all in a row.

In all fairness to Kami, it's not that he's addicted or has a problem... He just can't bear to see those sad puppy dog eyes of kites languishing in the for sale threads. He's really just trying to help the self esteem of the poor kites. Some people buy them and then abuse them by not flying them. It's truly a heroic effort on Kami's part to save these poor creatures from the misery and imprisonment to which people subject them .

Anyway, as everyone has stated, as long as you begin carefully, you should be fine :D.

wow - can't believe what a great response you've given me. So much helpful advice
Have to say I think this has been the friendliest welcome to a forum I've encountered so far!

Right, I'm going to stop being a wuss, keep my paranoia is reasonable check and get out there and fly the next time the wind looks 'just right'.

Thanks again for all you help, wish me look and I'll report back how it all goes!
(hopefully no face grinding)

cheers
Stef

its all good! you'll have fun... then it'll be all over... kamikuza isnt the minority around here... lots of people have LOTS of kites... and you wont be much different :smug:

any thoughts on a board or a bug down the road?

lol - I'm hoping you're right Drew.. it'd be nice to get a 'lil addicted.

not yet had too many thoughts on bugs and boards - although I definitely want to try both.
I've already been checking them out on ebay and there usually seems to be a few to choose from.
I'd also like to try kite surfing one day too... but gather thats a different ball park altogether.

I know its difficult to judge, but for a novice like me, flying maybe a few hours weekly, how long do you think it might take to be competent enough to jump on a board or bug?

Thinking I'll try starting with a board for lots of reasons.... a little cheaper, more maneuverable, more of a challenge, maybe use it in more places(?), easier to transport and Im hoping some snowboard / skating skills are transferable. I'll have to get me wobble board out and start balancing again!

Seen some crazy board stuff in various videos, but as always they only really show the highlights or tricks when they work and are landed without too much pain. Some floating over sand dunes looks pretty cool too... all in good time though!

Also thinking it might be worth dusting off my MIG in a year or so and trying to weld together my own bug... then again it might just be a whole lot less hassle to find a decent one second hand.

Just an FYI. Starting in a buggy is much, much easier IMHO. I also bought a board first, because it was cheaper and easier to transport/store. But I much prefer my bug.

Up yer bum Mav



I got a board cos there's no buggies in Japan! And I am NOT paying giga-bucks to ship one over

Forgot to mention - get a copy of Progression Landboarding Beginner ... good little DVD

Would echo Kami on the vid advice - One of the best instructional dvd's i've ever seen.

Have you got any friends who kite? if so then I would say get on a board with someone who knows what they are doing asap.

My girlfriend had done maybe 4 or 5 sessions just learning to fly a kite before she hopped on a landboard - had her doing runs up and down the beach by the end of the afternoon

Once again its making sure you get out in as near perfect coditions as possible that will make all the difference.

Buggying is maybe a little easier to learn. I certainly picked it up very quickly but I had already been riding the board for a while so i dont know how it works in the other direction.

Ride the board downhill a few times to get used to it before hooking in though - and i would recommend a harness and a bar if you are going to landboard. Toeside runs are really awkward with handles.

Kitesurfing is actually easier than it looks I think. The problem when you are learning is the amount of power required. You need big kites and you have to dive them aggressively to water start and keep them powered once you are up on the board - you cant back out and slow down like on land because you sink!! its mostly a head game though

Wow - that thing can pull! :wee:

So - I said I'd report back how the first flight went and am happy to say that I had a awesome time!

Flew for about 1.5 hours around sunset on saturday. That thing looks great in the sky as the sun goes down

Very light winds (I'd guess 5 or 6 mph, gusting to maybe 10 or 12 mph). Even though the wind was light you can get an idea of powerful those kites can be... definite respect there.

Stayed on my feet the entire time - except when I was intentionally on my bum.
Didn't crash once, managed some pretty good landings, loops etc and feel I know the window window pretty well.
Already tightened up the break lines as they didn't seem to do too much on the loosest knot. On the advice of someone I spoke to I also removed the strop as the control handles seems to be fairly close and constricted.

Definitely the right advice to fly in lighter winds for my first flight. My previous dual line stunt experience was definitely a big help.

Managed a tiny bit of skudding when a gust caught me (not really enough wind).
Around the edges of the window the kite would occasionally die, but I think that was due to lack of wind.. a little change of direction more into the window and the kite soon powered up again.

Towards the end of my session the wind pretty much completely died so I gave my missus ago... a little bit painful to watch her plunge the kite into the ground a few times but well worth it for the shrieks of exhilaration when the wind did take her a little bit ... apparantly a little bit of wee came out!?! :o

Can't wait until next time... its just a shame work has to get in the way.

Thanks again for all your previous advice - some of it really helped


p.s. I can post a vid, it's really not very exciting, but maybe useful in the way that someone might be able to give me some pointers or comment on bad technique etc

At the edges of the wind window, the kite is flying almost perpendicular to the wind - there's no pressure on the sail to keep it in the air, so they stall - even in big wind. Especially if they go rushing out to the edges and over-shoot. Tweak the brakes to keep it in line.

Yes to posting a vid