I flew a friends 7.5 today and it seemed to have way more pull and bar pressure than my new Neo.... I have the knots all the way out. I had the trim all the way out and in 12mph winds could loop it with no probs not even much pull just occasionally... I am wondering if its not tuned correctly even though the kites comes assembled...

I guess what I am saying is I am not sure if there wasn't enough wind today I was kinda dissapointed...

tuned wrong for 12mph. but it on the center knot and pull in the strap half way and see what happens. You had it set up for full power, but in 12mph its not enough wind so you were doggin the kite. trim it in a bit and let it fly to produce power. Did you have trouble getting it to zenith on the setting you have it on?

where was the apex set at?

also the apex may produce more power in those light conditions due to it being a ram air, but I think it was more your settings

I will have to give that a try thanks for the info... So when the trim line is all the way out that's set up for the most power. I haven't flown much with the de-powerbar I am use to the quad handles. So if I trim it in a bit and move that know i should get more pull?

its kind of a strange concept, but when it clicks it clicks! First thing is put the lines back on the center knot and just leave it there. Don't move them till you get a good feel of the kite and the settings.

lower winds pull the trimmer in to shorten the main lines and cause the kite to fly flatter and faster. It will produce less power, but the added speed makes up for the power loss, which will actually equal more power. If that makes sense.

good winds you can let the strap back out and take advantage of the power and with the strap out there will be less chance of overflying the zenith.

high winds strap comes back in again. It will flatten the kite out again to dump some power .. now its park and ride time. As long as your not moving the kite all over the window it will have reduced power.

Hope some of that makes sense.

That does thanks for the info....

DAKITEZ did a great job of explaining it.... and I am probably going to mess it up. But here is a little add on ( this works great when I am physically showing someone, not sure if it will work the same in text)

Here is a way to think of trimming power on a depower system. If you imagine a center point (2) between the bar (3) and the end of the trim strap (1) (there is usually a stopper ball there on the Neo and Apex) the closer you bring both the strap or the bar to that center point, the less power, the more you move away from it the greater the power.

lets see if I can make a little diagram with text:

1 2 3
kite==================== Top of trim strap {---------C--------]bar.YOU
power: more--------less-------more

so the tighter that trim strap is towards the C (2) the angle of attack is changed to dump power. Conversely, pulling the bar toward you will increases power. Try not to fly with always pulling the bar towards you, mess around with having it all the way out and about half way between you and that natural center point. When you pull it all the way to you, it is powering up.

Since you have come from quad lines/handles... maybe this description will help.

when the trim strap is all the way out (at the 1 position) and the bar is all the way out (at the 3) then you are flying from the top of your handles with little to no brakes.

when the Trim strap is half way between the 1 and the 2 and the bar is likewise halfway between the 2 and the 3, then you are flying the kite with a little to moderate brake. (if you have flown a beamer this would be like moving it a knot or two up but still flying from the 'top' of your handles)

when the trim strap (1) is all the way at 2, and the bar (3) is all the way at 2, then you are flying with almost equal brake and drive line pressure. (third or fourth knot on a beamer, or like flying a rev.)


yeah, there is a big difference between the Neo and the Apex in the conditions, the Neo is going to turn slower and you might have some problems shooting it to zenith. If you are on land in the same conditions I would use your Apex till you perfect your depower time. It is a great kite and a great size, it can be a touch fast on the turn for a depower, but since you know how to fly you should be ok. If you are going out to fly in 10-15mph with the same Apex I would say set the knots back to normal, adjust your trim strap in about an inch or two, launch, and then adjust the strap again to suit the feeling. Try doing the usual figure eights with your bar at the same 'spot'. Then try pulling in while you turn, then try pushing it away during the turn. The kite acts very differently when you do these two things. You might want to try it on a 10mph day, because you might get lofted and accidentally loop it.

lol flash you confused me. I think you need to draw up a diagram of that one. I am always wanting to learn more and more. Each little piece of info we can all get from each other is that one little piece closer to making us all better pilots.

The thing I really like to stress to new de-power users is its a bit different than what most people lead you to believe. I think everyone has it in their mind that pull in the bar for power and let it out for less power. Let the strap out for more power pull the strap in for less power. This is true yes, but in optimum conditions. In light winds (which most new people wisely start out in) this works opposite of what they are lead to believe. people try and put the kite on full power to get the most out of the kite, but in reality they are doing the complete wrong thing.

My high wind and low wind settings are the same ... strap in and bar out. The difference is in low wind I will fly the kite hard. In high wind I will keep it higher in the window and move it around very little. Not sure if this is right or wrong, but it works for me. I would love to hear others techniques.

lol.. yeah I confuse myself. Like I said... .this is something that I can easily demonstrate in person. eh...

and yes... to other new de-power folks, take heed to what DAKITEZ said about that different conditions means the kite handles differently. I highly suggest messing with the strap/bar constantly through out flight in the first few months/times of flying a depower,

now I am contemplating pulling out the ski's again and popping the same Apex II 7.5m that you spoke of and catching some runs on this snow storm blowing through.

I appreciate the help does anyone have any videos on youtube?

I just got my new Apex 7.5 flying today and am trying to set it up correctly. At first I had the center lines connected to the longest knot at the front line toggles (bar end). What I noticed, in lite winds thank goodness, was that with the bar let out the kite had max power and sheeting in the bar reduced that power - the opposite of what it should do. I thihk what was happening was that the kite was stalling at the bar-in position yielding less power. By moving to the second knot and thereby shortening the center lines a bit I achieved an appropriate response with least power with the bar out and max power pulling on the bar. However, again, this only applies to normal wind conditions. In lite winds the max power is with the bar out and sometimes even pulling on the center lines.
Great fun figuring out the aerodynamic properties by feel.

Quote:

Originally posted by frefel I just got my new Apex 7.5 flying today and am trying to set it up correctly. At first I had the center lines connected to the longest knot at the front line toggles (bar end). What I noticed, in lite winds thank goodness, was that with the bar let out the kite had max power and sheeting in the bar reduced that power - the opposite of what it should do. I thihk what was happening was that the kite was stalling at the bar-in position yielding less power. By moving to the second knot and thereby shortening the center lines a bit I achieved an appropriate response with least power with the bar out and max power pulling on the bar. However, again, this only applies to normal wind conditions. In lite winds the max power is with the bar out and sometimes even pulling on the center lines. Great fun figuring out the aerodynamic properties by feel.

spot on analysis....................light winds require less rear line pressure so the second knot or triming in is the thing to do...........bar out less power faster kite....................bar in kite drags and produces power/lift..................

I observed the 10 and 7.5 m Apexs' flying on Friday and man what a sweet kite...................no idea where the front lines were......................forum member mougl will chime in on
some apex xpertise....................