I've seen peeps going for the full Phantom quiver and others just buying them up.

Is it the look or something else?
I think its the best looking kite ever made but don't know much else about it.

Say you ended up with one like ebay had. 15m new, never opened.

Would you fly it? or would you keep it new?

buy it, fly it or you'll never know

phanny are de fastest arcs made, and are great buggy engines for the bar lovers. also AJ likes to use his for kitesurf too.

kites are made for flyin. Don't keep a girl like that standing on the wall at the dance.

Fly it for sure. Yes it looks cool - when I am ripping it on Jekyll Island beach, those driving on the parallel road up the island tell me that my 18m Phanny is the coolest thing floating over the dunes (can't see the buggy, just the kite) and keeping up with traffic at 30+.

With an A/R of 6.5, no other ARC besides the larger F-ARC has a higher A/R. Great light wind flier and terrific upwind performance as noted, yet still has "you-can-fly-it-with-a-beer-in-one-hand" stability and auto zenith. Water riders are fans, too.

I can't fly the Charger in the buggy- it turns so fast it has all the stability of a crack addict and almost no auto-zenith. The Synergy turns fast but is still stable. Pisses me off that PL thinks every new iteration of the ARC is the end-all of designs and they take others off the market. Just about every ARC since the Phantom - VII and on - has a place in the market to accommodate different applications and riding styles. The Phantom II can't come fast enough - I just hope they don't fuc* it up with "improvements" (besides another zipper on the big ones).

Sounds like the PL brand is having a case of "LEI Envy."

But Mr. Lynn himself told me he a "fan of the Phantom" himself - still has the T-shirts and prefers the more stable design as he gets older.

I guess no one here whose actually tried the Phantom II prototype is allowed to comment on it's performance compared to the original Phanny?

... I want a 9 and an 18 if anyone has them :D I want a set

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell I can't fly the Charger in the buggy- it turns so fast it has all the stability of a crack addict and almost no auto-zenith. The Synergy turns fast but is still stable. Pisses me off that PL thinks every new iteration of the ARC is the end-all of designs and they take others off the market. Just about every ARC since the Phantom - VII and on - has a place in the market to accommodate different applications and riding styles. The Phantom II can't come fast enough - I just hope they don't fuc* it up with "improvements" (besides another zipper on the big ones).

WOW ANGUS .

What a GREAT rant about the Charger. I agree with you 100% . The only thing I like about the new bar is the adjustable stopper. It is the newest bar in my bag and yet already looks the oldest.

I'm still waiting on my 15 to do a back to back but my 10m leaves me wishing that Peter Lynn kept the Syn in the line up even if the price had to go up.

As far as flying the Phantom. It doesn't sound right to me to say I own the best possible kite for these conditions but it's so pretty I won't fly it. So I'll make do with ( kite B ) today?

No one but team riders and PL design staff have flown the Phantom II. I don't see production models till after the first of the year based on discussion with MJ. That's my estimate, not his.

I flew the Charger in the buggy in light winds where I was working it and in winds that I was overpowered. It was fine in the underpowered conditions but I never felt at ease when the wind was cranking. I'd love to be able to buy a new Venom 13 and a set of Phantoms. I'm not sure what would be wrong with continuing to sell the old models. Why stop selling them to begin with?

Phantom is my fav ARC on water (and not a water design:spin................It sits far forward in the window like the FSer Speeds and once youre edging it accelerates very nice...................BB, ACampbell, an Pokite all mention how well they get upwind and park -n-ride with their Phantoms..............AJ hit 67 mph with his 9m at NABX 09 in a standard PL buggy..........................................Im def down for a 12m Phantom or Phantom 2 for the buggy and high wind dayz on the aqua......................agree with BB and Angus........if it aint broke dont fix it......................add two tip zips and let production begin.........hey PL are your listening, customers are waiting................................:duh::duh:

Quote:

Originally posted by Hardrock I've seen peeps going for the full Phantom quiver and others just buying them up. Is it the look or something else? I think its the best looking kite ever made but don't know much else about it. Say you ended up with one like ebay had. 15m new, never opened. Would you fly it? or would you keep it new?

Rock,

I purchased a new still in the wrapper 15m Phantom for $400 or $450...........you already have a bar for your 19 so this would not be a good deal for you. ......this auction is overpriced by at least $300 in my book.............

Quote:

Originally posted by tridude Phantom is my fav ARC on water (and not a water design:spin................It sits far forward in the window like the FSer Speeds and once youre edging it accelerates very nice...................BB, ACampbell, an Pokite all mention how well they get upwind and park -n-ride with their Phantoms..............AJ hit 67 mph with his 9m at NABX 09 in a standard PL buggy..........................................Im def down for a 12m Phantom or Phantom 2 for the buggy and high wind dayz on the aqua......................agree with BB and Angus........if it aint broke dont fix it......................add two tip zips and let production begin.........hey PL are your listening, customers are waiting................................:duh::duh:

I hit 67.8 with the 6m in the Appex buggy, my fastest in xr+ is 59.6 also with 6m phantom....aj

Too late Don, Its on the way!!!!!! Guess you figured what I had in mind. LOL

I'll send U2U about price, but I feel lucky.

Must...find...a....9m Phanny....
(then my life will be complete )

I imagine the PII will be at least as good as the PI. If they F it up, they might as well get some new staff or just continue toproduce the ld kite. And when the flood gates open on PII production either the PI owners will sell theirs off or won't buy up the PII supply. Either way one of them will drop in price and with open avail. I can't imageine PL holding onto stock; given the small market the are catering to, that'd just piss everyone off.

I plan to fly the v's this year, try some of the PII's when then come out and go from there. I'm also weird, I don't like the kite to fly by itself all the time and hang out with a beer, I actually want t fly the kite. On land, I typically prefer to fly underpowered and kite loop to all hell :D

I gather you must have made an offer on the $999 Phantom on Ebay. I was considering to make a realistic offer for it as well. Have fun with it. If it is not for you let me know.

It is definitely not an easy kite on water. Not that it can't be done - just need those arc skillz dialed in. I attempted a few weeks ago with the 9M when the wind was 30mph. One attempt at a water relaunch..........bowtie pinwheel. Great kite in the buggy.

The ARC handling dilemma sounds like the classic jet fighter trade-off of stability vs. maneuverability.

This seems true for all aeronautics, with the exceptions of the Revolution Quads and Bumblebees(?).

[

Quote:

Originally posted by lad This seems true for all aeronautics, with the exceptions of the Revolution Quads and Bumblebees(?).

One of my favorite inherently unstable designs...



The X-29A demonstrated excellent control and maneuvering qualities at an angle of attack up to 45 degrees. There was also a decrease in turbulence. The wing configuration made the craft inherently unstable. It could fly only with the constant corrections (up to 40 per second :o ) provided by the computerized flight control system. The system was made up of three redundant digital computers backed up by three redundant analog computers.

ATB,
Sam

Analog computers :eek:

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBob No one but team riders and PL design staff have flown the Phantom II. I don't see production models till after the first of the year based on discussion with MJ. That's my estimate, not his. I flew the Charger in the buggy in light winds where I was working it and in winds that I was overpowered. It was fine in the underpowered conditions but I never felt at ease when the wind was cranking. I'd love to be able to buy a new Venom 13 and a set of Phantoms. I'm not sure what would be wrong with continuing to sell the old models. Why stop selling them to begin with.

everything before the Scorpion was under PL NZ (himself) whatever you want to call it ... hence why PL NL is now designing new arcs for the market, ie the Phanny II, and some other top secret arcs for speed.

My understanding is that the PII is being retro-engineered by the current PL brand designers, without even the original plans or templates of the NZ PL PI?

It seems that adding "more speed" could also mean "faster turning" which is not embraced by all the above buggiers.

Quote:

Originally posted by lad Must...find...a....9m Phanny.... (then my life will be complete )

...ditto

Quote:

Originally posted by ripsessionkites Quote: Originally posted by BeamerBob No one but team riders and PL design staff have flown the Phantom II. I don't see production models till after the first of the year based on discussion with MJ. That's my estimate, not his. I flew the Charger in the buggy in light winds where I was working it and in winds that I was overpowered. It was fine in the underpowered conditions but I never felt at ease when the wind was cranking. I'd love to be able to buy a new Venom 13 and a set of Phantoms. I'm not sure what would be wrong with continuing to sell the old models. Why stop selling them to begin with. everything before the Scorpion was under PL NZ (himself) whatever you want to call it ... hence why PL NL is now designing new arcs for the market, ie the Phanny II, and some other top secret arcs for speed.

indeed the new designs are as flinty as an M5. but for performance, some comfort has to be sacrificed.

@Hardrock- whoa, look whose ARC quiver just tripled... good for you dude enjoy them!!! is that the unused Phanny from ebay...? :cool2:

Yea cheezy, its the ebay Phantom. You should see it. Still hasn't been unfolded. The plastic bag was open so I slid it out and unfolded it like two flips just to know for sure, and there were a few pieces of new kite thread just laying in there.

Oh and the zippers, never been opened. First new Arc zips I ever seen. (the one I can see) Going to need time to take it in little by little. Can't just lay it out in the yard. CATS are out to get me.

This is a HOOJ responsibility but when the wind gets right, she's a going up. I guess.

I got the Venom 13 yesterday, and was blown away by it. It is in great shape, looks new also except one small repair. The zips on it look unused.

Ah, and the Proof will be here today. Just need wind and some time off.

Sweet thang and I should look real cute flying the same color kites. 19 n 13. She said this morning we should wear the same shirts also. Let me tell ya, that isn't going to happen. Never has never will.

But anyway, maybe one more kite and I'll be done for awhile.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hardrock But anyway, maybe one more kite and I'll be done for awhile.

Yea, ...whatever!!
;-)

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Originally posted by BeamerBob Quote: Originally posted by Hardrock But anyway, maybe one more kite and I'll be done for awhile.

Got me a 15 m Phanny on the way; can't wait.

Way to go Angus, I know the feeling.

Quote:

Originally posted by Hardrock I've seen peeps going for the full Phantom quiver and others just buying them up. ... Would you fly it? or would you keep it new?

Fly it. At JIBE I flew my 10 and 16m Scorpions and they rocked, but I found I was always chasing Dean and Tim as they flew the Phantoms. If I was on my game I could just barely keep up with them, but I could never catch them if they got ahead. It didn't matter whether I was flying more sail than them or less they had the edge on me. So, I'd fly the Phantom. Some day I think I'll get a 12m, but that's probably two kites down the road.

Philip

Hey Philip, I remember your kites well. Very nice.

I'll get it out soon I hope when the wind is right. The wind wasn't good today but tried the V13. It flew when there was almost no wind but it also spent a lot of time on the ground.

I don't want to do the Phanny that way, on the ground then up then down,,,, repeat. Thats rough on a kite. So for awhile I'll look for the good days.