I've started using kite killers after a few bouts of losing my grip on my small but mighty Prism Stylus P4 (4 lines/handles). I'm sure they are for my own good, but they sure get in the way and add another level of untangle. I haven't lost my kite again yet, so I'm not sure how effective they will be.

I wanted to get the more experienced flyers opinions of kite killers. Are they worth the extra burden?

I always use them with Fixed Bridle Foils. I make sure I buy a set when the kite doesn't come with them.

It protects you.
It protects the kite.
It protects the poor guy down wind.

here comes the arguments.

They generally work, but they are indeed a PITA.

Say no to killers. If your kite is being blown from your hands, you should be flying a smaller one, not attaching yourself to one you can not control.
S

Scudley, at WW in the fall I was flying a 1.5m Nippair in 25-30 mph in a buggy. The buggy got stuck and the jerk ripped the kite out of my hands. It would have gone a long way up the beach if it weren't for the KKs. Believe it or not, #@%$#! happens for reasons other than having too large a kite for the wind conditions.

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley If your kite is being blown from your hands, you should be flying a smaller one, not attaching yourself to one you can not control.

With heartfelt hopes that this discussion doesn't have to turn into a religious jihaad....

You may have control of yourself, you may have control of your kite.... that's a very small percentage of the things that can go way South, way, way fast.

Absolute faith in your skills or kite size selection should not necessarily deter you from using KKs.

Absolute faith in KKs should not be the controlling factor for kite size selection or your decision to fly in the prevailing winds.

That said, there's plenty of room for improvement in many of the currently available KKs from various manufacturers.

ATB,
Sam

The ol' blue one is dead on as usual.

I agree, well said Sam

AHHHH, the annual killer debate. Is it that time of year again ?


They aren't for everybody !

When this has turned into a jihad before, the conclusion I drew was that kite killers tend to be more for the safety of the kite and those downwind that for the flyer himself. They do offer their own safety concerns as well such as the cord getting wrapped around a buggy wheel. They aren't perfect but I think they are worth the effort in most cases and I fly with them most of the time. Large kites flown in light winds tend to not have them attached. I don't pick my kite size thinking about kite killers any more than seatbelts and airbags affect the way I drive a car. In both cases I try to avoid the accident first and foremost, then if that didn't work, the kite killers keep me from chasing my kite or hurting someone or something downwind.

My vote is "kill", but with caution.

Make sure that you have the killers attached to the breaks and far enough up the lines to flag out the kite completely.
If you are in motion be prepared to preform an emergency stop if you do drop to killers, so that the lines don't get pulled across some poor saps neck.
Use your head don't fly were you kite could get caught on a passing car.

Any thread with this much potential needs one of these .

Quote:

Originally posted by oldtdevil but they sure get in the way and add another level of untangle.

couple ways to reduce the pita factor:

hold the handles so the brake ends are well apart and the powerlines are close together. this way the killer lines are kept well apart.

also check the length of the KK lines, they might be too long and maybe you can tie up the extra length or something.

also check the knots every time you fly, they tend to slip around on the brake leaders.

also with small kites flying static the pita factor is at max: you're moving the handles a lot and quickly as well. with bigger kites this problem is reduced as everthing happens slower. Also when you start to work the edges of the window rather than the power zone (big kites / powered for jumping) the handle movements are smaller and more planned ahead, so less tangles.

and finally (like the usual noob problem with the kite collapsing at the edge of the window in mildly gusty winds) with practice the skills kick in and the problem goes away.

If you're in your comfort zone flying static, you don't need them. The more you fly, esp. at your spot, the better you are at judging your comfort zone. I don't wear mine much, but if I forget them I often miss them.

Great title for the thread, by the way....

I just keep them on all the fixed bridle kites. If I start feeling I might be overpowered from some crazy gust, I take my thumbs from around the handles and extend my fingers enough so the handles can be ripped from my hands.

I just can't let go in time if I have the death grip on the handles. I like having the option with them on.

I normally always say yes to kS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s and in this case I will say yes again even though I have been getting away from them myself in the buggy. I am a strong believer in do as I say not as I do

In this case I believe oldtdevil flies alot at ocean beach. if this is true hwy 1 is down wind of him. It would be very bad press to have a kite land on someones windshield and cause an accident. Plus if your not in a buggy that shouldn't be that big of a pita

oldtdevel,,,,I'd say use them until you feel confident in your control to be able to go without them. Although problems can crop up with and with out kite killers I would generally vote to use them even though they can be a hassle sometimes. An important point to remember is that even if people are far down wind of you and you let go of the handles the kite could still end up in a crowd of people. Where as with KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s your the only one interacting with your kite as you would never be flying so close to others for them to be in the kites path. It may be helpful as well to size your kite for the gusts not the lulls that way your always in control. Of course this is another case of 'do as I say not as I do' since I believe I was on a 6.5 the day Maven was on that 1.5 :D. Just my 2 cents of course.

If I recall correctly I stayed out of the KK debate the last time it came around as it got ugly real fast:D

Amusingly kteguru, if I'd been on a 2m or maybe a 2.5m the buggy would have been going fast enough that I probably wouldn't have gotten stuck and would have held onto my kite :D. You though, were a bit insane on that 6.5m.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner AHHHH, the annual killer debate. Is it that time of year again ? They aren't for everybody !

LMAO!! TRUE!! AHAHAHA!

I always use 'em (personal exp only) mostly static.... if im in the bug im flyin' a depower.... i have never once flown my twister w/o the killers tho, and i never will

Ok now what if your in the buggy with a strop and killers. You loose your grip for what ever reason and the strop pulls the power lines and the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s pull the break lines. I suppose it is all about setup and line lenghth.
Just a thought.
I do like the idea of killing the kite to save it and others.

Quote:

Originally posted by rocfighter Ok now what if your in the buggy with a strop and killers. You loose your grip for what ever reason and the strop pulls the power lines and the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s pull the break lines. I suppose it is all about setup and line lenghth. Just a thought. I do like the idea of killing the kite to save it and others.

Not sure I know anyone at all that uses a strop (hooked in) and KKs at the same time.

I do

edit: I use 1 KK when flying hotwired,cause if the stuff hits the fan, I have to hit the QR. When I do that, whichever handle I'm not holding will launch. So, i just let them both go, the strop keeps them together and the bungee kills the kite.

and there is a little more complicated way of sorting it out but that is another thread.

Quote:

Ok now what if your in the buggy with a strop and killers. You loose your grip for what ever reason and the strop pulls the power lines and the KS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-s pull the break lines. I suppose it is all about setup and line lenghth.

Wouldn't it go something like this:

Strop is unhooked:
Kite flags out.

Strop is hooked in:
Romulan Bird of Prey Death Spiral for the kite except in the VERY unlikely case that the strop is perfectly equalized before AND after you lose your grip on the handles. Possible OBE depending on what kind of power the death spiral builds up and the transition path through the power zone.

I am making the assumption that the strop is shorter than the KKs. Even pulled to one side, I would expect the strop to be shorter than the KKs at full bungee extension.

ATB,
Sam

No good reason NOT to use them :puzzled:

I notice that this year the pro killer comments are much more subdued than last year. No bull shia claims about how they save lives by allowing you to let go of your kite; no claims about how the pilot is safer because he has them on;
people saying that there are a kite retention device not a safety device. My "jihad" seems to have some effect on the collective consciousness.
S

Or they just don't feel like being jumped on by you... ;-)

I don't remember the "whos" and "whats" of the last round, but it is hard to argue that the killers are a safety device for the flyer. Certainly good for those downwind and to keep the kite close by if you bail or it gets yanked out of your hands.

Yeah , I wouldn't want to get smacked up side of the melon w/ my custom handles. They are a bit heavier than production models. They would leave a mark for sure.

those were some sweet handles btw WG.

you mean these

Quote:

Originally posted by Scudley I notice that this year the pro killer comments are much more subdued than last year. No bull shia claims about how they save lives by allowing you to let go of your kite; no claims about how the pilot is safer because he has them on; people saying that there are a kite retention device not a safety device. My "jihad" seems to have some effect on the collective consciousness. S

The power to change hearts and minds via the forum/Internet is limited at best and more realistically illusory.

Safer for the pilot? Possibly... but more on a case by case basis rather than any grand sweeping statements.

If you are sharing the field with other flyers or pedestrians, I can definitely see the value. The discussion about whether a poor kite selection would still be pretty much moot to the other parties concerned.

People are going to do what they're going to do... forever and ever, amen.

What's between your ears is still safety device #1.

ATB,
Sam

@WG those are them..... a thing of bulletproof beauty

Quote:

What's between your ears is still safety device #1.

Uhhhh,,,,Sam,,,,,, If that's the case we're all doomed