I am new to snowkiting, i love snowboarding and consider myself pretty good at it.
looking to be able to catch some air if i freestyle out on my lake.:singing: it is a personal lake and i can assure you there will not be another kiter within 100s of miles. this sport has not picked up in MN yet. i intend to change that! im looking at buying an hq apex II 5m with the depower bar for snowkiting. also post if you have one for sale! XD

Forgot to mention i am looking to spend about 500. if i have to pop for a couple more hundred to get a solid kite i will.

I'm not a snowkiter, but if you give folks info about the wind speeds you'll be dealing with, the snowkiters here will be able to give you better advice.

You can go to your local climate records for windspeeds, or if you know local snowkiters, they could tell you. Otherwise, maybe try to recall what the winds were like and try to pin them to something on the beaufort scale, click da link:

http://www.howtoons.com/?page_id=150

fwiw, 5m fixed bridle (scout) are very diff animals to the 5m depowers. the snow guys will tell you to go for a min 6m depower, ozone access, moving at 15 mph, lit up from 25-35. Also winter inland winds tend to be gusty and depowers will be much better than fixed bridles. 5m fixed bridle will get you moving in 10, powered by 15, and nervous around 20.

for stoke and info, click below: (feyd's blog)

http://hardwaterkiter.blogspot.com/

well as i said i live in Minnesota and the weather is quite unpredictable. the winds are generally light with low gusts, but on some days 15-20 with 30mph gusts. probably wont ride those days. im just looking for something to take out and jump around on my lake.

I can't help you further, mate, I mostly static jump on the beaches around Hong Kong, I reckon that's as fa away from snowkiting one can get and still be playing with traction.

There's a snowkite club at UND, redtailin on here is the president.

There's a couple snowkiters in your area, and plenty more around north america.

give it a day, you'll get lots of info!

all the best to ya.

looking at an Ozone flow 5m atm. i see that it is not a depowerable kite, but you can tether yourself to it, would it be better to go with an ozone pure 4m with depower or should i definantly get a 5m or larger?

WHOOOOOAAAAA..... REWIND

The Ozone Pure (despite the marketing idiocy) is a fixed bridle kite. It is NOT a depower kite. We did this dance last year when the kite came out.

The Pure is essentially a package deal that is marketed as a beginning snowkite package with all the "essentials" all under one SKU.

How effectively it delivers on that premise will vary greatly depending on the user and local wind conditions. In heavy gust conditions, chances are better than even that it will mainly improve your skills as a snow gopher.

The HQ Scout attaches to a harness using a control loop with a quick release. If you look at the product manual, there is a fairly good diagram of the kite, lines, bar and how everything is laid out.

"Slack the bar" ?!?!

ATB,
Sam

Quote:

Originally posted by mwc_xb-crewx looking at an Ozone flow 5m atm. just wondering if that is a good kite and if it is geared for snowkiting?

What are you flying now?

ATB,
Sam

Ozone makes great kites. I've got to second indigo_wolf's question though, what are you currently flying?

yea i just noticed that bout the ozone pure..
and when i say "slack the bar" i mean working the depower. when i say im new to kiting i mean reallly new as in i have not purchased a kite yet, and just want to make sure i get the exact kite before i drop hundreds. slack the bar i mean, when they are catching air they can allow the bar to slide up the lines towards the kite, and pull it back towards them, so working the bar while in mid flight. you can do that with crossbars, but i beleive that if you "slack the bar" all the way towards the kite it will fold the kite and make it fall from the sky am i right?

so after all my shopping i still have no idea what kite to buy, but i have learned a lot. i think i now have my head wrapped around the bars. and also the styles of kites.

If you don't have any prior kite experience you could put yourself at severe risk....

Shortcuts taken on the learning curve tend to end in A&E, there are photos of X-rays on the forum caused by the first 15 mintues of flight time.

These guys will lay it out for you, let them start you at the beginning.

so i have settled on wanting a kite with a depower bar for sure for doing arials on my snowboard. and i think i will need a 5m or possibly more. in all the videos of people doing arials with 4m kites the wind is realllly blowing. any ideas on a kite? like i said id like to spend about 5-700

OH trust me i will be taking it easy, low smooth wind conditions on a nice open lake with more than enough powder. i am not new to snowboarding by any means, and im not new to breaking bones XD i want a kite that i can catch 5-10ft of air on a 140lb frame. im no dummy and dont intend on kiting in 30mph winds my first day.

found an Ram-air Apex2 5m quad line with depower for 600. correct me if i am wrong but this looks like a good kite, in my price range, and can handle what i will be puting it thru

Quote:

Originally posted by Maven454 I've got to second indigo_wolf's question though, what are you currently flying?

yo, sorry to be an a$$hat, but you need to 'fess up. newbie or not?

My recommendation would be to start with something like the 7m Ozone Frenzy. You'll likely end up wanting an 11m as well for the lighter wind days, but the 7m should be a reasonable kite to start learning with. Another possibility would be a 6m Ozone Access. That of course is simply my opinion, prepare to be buried in other people's preferences :D. Ozone created the first open-cell depower kite and even allowing for differing opinions is at or near the top on almost anyone's list. They aren't cheap, but they perform well and are very high quality. I believe that Kent at A Wind of Change (awindofchange.com) still has an '07 7m Frenzy for sale. It was used very briefly as a demo kite and is in perfect shape. That'd be a good starting point and should be approximately what you want to pay.

That 5m Apex II will be awfully small for snowkiting. Though if you're going to be spending your time on a frozen lake... might be a decent size. The problem with the Apex (and the Access that I mentioned in my previous post) is that since they are lower aspect ratio, they'll result in more downwind pull, which is a pain on something like a frozen lake.

well i only weigh 140. the frenzy is a bit spendy. and im not trying to turn myself into glider, i just want a few seconds of hangtime to do small arials. i understand that size of kites and hangtime depends on windspeed, so would the apex do me justice for some flight if i were to go out on a windy day? or are kites that size just not really capable?

and yes i am a nooby to kiting, but not a snowboard noob.

i am a quick learner with every sport i try, i also wakeboard, and snowkiting looks like a pretty straight forward concept. my goal of this thread is to get some good advice on kites. and ill be asking lots of questions along the way! XD

A kite that is small enough for you to maybe not hurt yourself learning is going to be woefully underpowered for snowkiting unless the wind is really blowing. If you start jumping before you have DEEP knowledge of what the kite is about to do before it does it, you are asking for trouble and fast. Your snowboarding experience isn't going to help you when a gust yanks you 10-15 feet up and you don't instinctively know what to do. You need some kite experience with a 3m or so kite to understand how they fly and what can go wrong without it going so wrong you get hurt bad. You're trying to take some shortcuts that can get you hurt or killed. Without recognizing that, your advice here will get less and less friendly. The folks here will help you endlessly as long as you listen to the advice you are asking for even if it isn't what you want to hear. Otherwise, just ask someone on the street which color kite they like best.

I'm only 155 lbs and I spend my time using either a 12m or an 8m for snow kiting (generally the 12m). Even then, sometimes I wish I had a larger kite. That used Frenzy that I mentioned should be in your price range and is a really excellent kite. Additionally, 5m is about the smallest kite that is capable of providing float (which is what keeps you from hitting the ground really hard when jumping), something in the 6-8m range would provide a better float.


The difference between power kiting and most other sports is that most sports depend on either power from your body or fairly steady power from some source like gravity or power boats. Since kiting depends on the wind (which is a more fickle and undependable source) it is far more dangerous and much more likely to take you by surprise if you haven't gone with a careful progression. Bob is correct that you should get some kind of trainer to start off with.

I think ill just go with the apex 7.5m unless someone has a good kite that they wish to inform me about. plz leave the motherly insticts out of your posts, i understand these kites are monsters, and there is a chance you can get hurt very badly. plz keep leaving suggestions ill be back in an hour.

Just a note that a 7.5m Apex will cost you about the same amount as the Frenzy that I mentioned. But obviously you know what's best. In the event that you get hurt, please try to keep it off the news, our sport doesn't need any more bad publicity from people who "know what they're doing". Best of luck.

Quote:

Originally posted by mwc_xb-crewx plz leave the motherly insticts out of your posts, i understand these kites are monsters, and there is a chance you can get hurt very badly

its more that we are worried about you hurting somebody else... break yourself all you want... we have said our piece there, but hurt somebody else, and lose a kite spot for the rest of us and you will make a lot of enemies quickly...

that said... i recommend you avoid hq kites... some people like them, but for the most part i have been upset by their flying characteristics and durability... for 5-700 you can get a good used flysurfer if you are patient, but there is a 15m synergy for sale on the forum right now in that price range, and it will be a FAR more useful kite to you than a 7m apex will ever be

you can either take our advice on it, or throw it to the wayside, but trust me when i tell you that it can be expensive if you start buying up kites just because you think they are a good deal (with very limited knowledge of kiting at all)

the peter lynn brand is easy to use, beginner friendly... versatile... relatively safe... and confidence inspiring...


.. just make sure that what you buy is ready to fly, or you will be looking at another $200 for the bar/ lines

do you have a harness? you will need one for depower, and for your goals/ conditions, depower is what you will want

You can pick up a 3m 4-line trainer for a hundred bucks off the forum. Once you get a few hours on that, you'll know what we're on about. Then sell it on or keep it to introduce others to the sport. There's a few months yet before the snow gets here. Plenty of time yet to spend the big bucks, why not take it slow?

I really can't recommend a 15m arc to somebody who hasn't flown a kite, but they (and flysurfer) are the best foils for the long term. PL has been designing kites for 20 years, which is like being from the stone age in power kite terms. iirc, dj423 dropped at least $2500 USD on HQ kites before going arc.

One of the keys to safety in this sport is progression: slow and careful equals safe. If you're planning to go the self-taught route, well many of us have done that, but for no lessons substitute slower and more careful progression.

Use the time before the snow gets here, so that when you finally see snow you 1) know the wind window inside out 2) can recover your kite and relaunch from anywhere in the window 3) can use a harness 4) fly your kite without looking at it. That's at least 20 hours of time, likely a lot more.

Also you're going to learn a lot about wind. I had 50K miles of offshore sailing experience, most of that in a teaching / watch officer role on tall ships, before I started kiting and my knowledge of the wind was improved 10x in the first year of flying.

Oh... nobody has mentioned safety gear yet, but as an experienced snowboarder you'll know what to be worried about, eh? :evil:

OK, time to go back to digging postholes. I'll check back in half an hour.

Quote:

Originally posted by mwc_xb-crewx plz leave the motherly insticts out of your posts, i understand these kites are monsters, and there is a chance you can get hurt very badly. plz keep leaving suggestions ill be back in an hour.

You are just burning up your good will here as you are ignoring and even scoffing at good advice. And now you give us timelines?

If I might interject something . . . .

Handling the board, whether on snow, ice, land, or water never really seems to be the
problem. It's handling the kite that's the issue. Just humor us and take a look at several 'kite-jumping' Youtube videos and watch people get 'snatched' like an alien invasion. Being proficient on a board ( or a quick learner) doesn't necessarily mean you can learn the kite just as quickly, especially while doing something else. It doesn't mean you can't either, but there's a reason people are advising caution.
I learned to snowboard in less that 45 minutes and was doing 360's down a mountain (no, not head over heels) directly after that. I did similar things with water stuff. But handling the board and handling the kite are two different skill sets.
I'm not lecturing, only explaining, so please don't be offended.

Secondly; If you'll read some of the other posts (reference CNN). If you, at your risk,
(granted, this is your right to do so) go out and have an accident or severely injure yourself, it looks bad on the sport. Many places have already started banning various aspects of the sport because of those few (either novices or idiots) who decided to try something dangerous without properly investing the time on a kite or on a mentor/trainer. You may be fine with the possibility of getting hurt. But you may hurt the rest of us as well.

search references: CNN, Kami's episodes (speak up, Kami)

No one on here wants to rain on your parade, but it's not just 'maternal instinct' that
sparks cautionary words. It's wisdom, experience, and believe it or not, a type of caring brotherhood on the part of these guys. Dismissing them is risky and foolhardy.

I'll shut up now.

Word up on the brotherhood! We all care about each other and the sport. My only tidbit to throw in the mess is that my "little 3m TRAINER" launched me 20+ feet downwind at about 5 feet off the ground. Thankfully I was still moving forward when I came back down and was able to slide it off.

Have a look at peep's signatures and invest in the money and time on the "trainer". You can snowkite on a 3-5m fixed bridle no problem - that's what I started with. You'll have plenty of kites to choose from as time progresses. If it helps, call it a 3m fixed bridle. Your high wind machine. Afterall, isn't that what the buggy speed record was set using? Or was it smaller still?

i dont mean to be snarky, i just am very excited to get started in this sport. im not here to kill myself and be put on the news to give snowkiting a bad name, i am here to learn and figure out what would be the best kite for me. i have flown many stunt kites but never a power kite. maybe i will just go with a 5m depowerable kite, i think that should be plenty of power and manouverability for me tbh. ive seen people get wicked air on a 5m but i also see alot of snowkiters using very large kites. and no, no timelines i just had to leave for a bit and was letting people know i was chatting with.

Funny , I snowkite a lot and I rarely see people even flying a 5m Depower ? I just bought my 1st depower under 10m and I have survival not jumping in mind with the wind I need for it ? A 5m is about the LAST kite I would want for jumping. But you know, you've seen them !

Do you understand what winds you need for a 5m? It IS a good intro size and I think if you are determined to go straight to depower it is a good size to start out as a trainer but it is actually meant as a high wind kite ?

Back to your original post. YES you can hook in and take up the power in to the harness with a * 3m * Scout on a crossover bar if you have a D loop. IT would be your best choice IMHO ! I got my 1st runs on a 3m JoJo and a bar. It became a GREAT high wind kite !