Greetings,

I'm thinking about making the transition from fixed bridle to de-power and am looking for some advice. I've been looking at the Apex II, Montana V, and Access. I really need advice on what size kite I should get. My wind conditions are mainly 15mph but enjoy the low 8-10mph conditions too. My sport would be snowboard and ATB depending on the season, no water. It's my understanding de-power size is a lot different than fixed. Any bias in brand/model? Why such a price difference in Apex vs Montana? Most importantly, what size?

I'm new to de-powers but have fixed flying experience. I'm looking for something forgiving and don't need anything lifting me 20 ft off the ground just yet. I have basic experience on a snowboard but not with a kite. So I'd like the option of a little air but nothing xtream.

what fixed bridles are you flying now?

Some of what you are asking is influenced by how much you weigh. I like my Neo1 11m for winds around 15mph. I weigh about 205lbs and am well powered at 15mph for my comfort level.

I have a Montana V 9.5m and the winds you describe are perfect for it in my eye. The lift can be controlled but is there if you want to kick it in.
The access is also a fine kite according to others. No personal experience with it.
The Apex will save you some money and will tone down the performance and lift compared to the Montana. Calming the performance isn't always a bad thing. The Apex is a more relaxed kite to fly and will instill confidence in the flier because of its stability and predictability. It will save you some money as well.

@ DAKITEZ
I own a 4m Beamer, 4.9m Blade, 6.5 Crossfire.

@stetson05
I'm about 160lb with no gear. I looked at the neo, and there's some used ones here that might be a good option but from the research I've done they are great for water (because they use closed cell??) and I've read it's not easy to launch them in light wind conditions. Pure speculation and please correct me if I'm wrong.

@BeamerBob
So your suggesting a kite in the 10m range, give or take a meter?



Also what would you recommend for a harness? Should I go a size bigger due to snowpants/jacket?

Basically, they classify the Access and the Apex as "back country" kites and they classify the Frenzy and Montana as "Freestyle" kites. The difference is that the Access and Apex are toned down some on the aggressiveness and are perfect for cruising. Super stable, solid to fly and easy.

The Frenzy and Montana are more aggressive on lift and performance and designed for the pilot who wants to power up when needed and also get the most from the air/hang times.

The thing is that it is the rider who basically controls this. Pretty much any rider can take out a Frenzy and cruise back country with it without any problems or a rider can load up the Apex and get some pretty decent airs from it. If you find that you are closer to an aggressive pilot then you would probably be happiest with the Montana or Frenzy - just because those kites will reward aggressive flying more than the toned down Apex or Access.

Basically if you are trying to save on every penny and don't plan on doing a lot of aggressive flying then get the Apex or Access and your set. If you don't mind paying a little more then definitely get the Montana or Frenzy and have the best of both worlds with all the extra bells and whistles.

Now for size.....well, that mainly depends on wind speed (which you mentioned already), rider weight and terrain you plan on riding.

For an average rider of 180lbs, riding in normal snow conditions with some powder, I would recommend something in the 9 - 13 meter size for winds between 10 and 18 mph. For lighter winds go a size or two bigger. 8 mph is about the bottom wind range for any size depower - they just need more wind to get in the air regardless of whether its a 7 meter or a 15 meter. 8 mph is about it. The difference is that the 7 meter will go up to 30+ mph winds (depending on riders skill and ability) where the 15 meter will cap out around 18-20 mph (again, depending on rider skill and ability). Keep in mind though, for a heavier rider (220+) a 7m in 8 mph winds is not going to do anything but fly back and forth - so even though it will fly in 8mph, your not going to get any power to ride in that wind.

Riding on hard pack or ice will be much easier with much less drag, so you can get away with a smaller size kite and still be good to ride. For heavy powder, just the opposite, you will need a larger size kite to plow through.

Hope this helps you narrow down your choices. Let us know what your weight is and what terrain you plan on riding and we can get you closer to what size kite you will need.

Barely missed your post as we were both typing at the same time.

For harness, go a little bigger. You can always cinch them down a little if they are too big but you can NOT stretch them bigger if they are too small. Also take into consideration that you will usually be wearing heavy snow gear which can be a size or two larger than your normal pants size.

The harness I recommend is the DaKine Fusion or the Ozone SB or Base harness's. Harness selection is like car selection - everyone has their favorite and each one has its ups and downs. Best thing to do is to try a couple on to see how you like them and then decide (if possible that is).

The Neo is fine for land use but can be a little more difficult to launch in light winds. Basically if you can get it to fill, you can launch it and fly. If you plan on using the kite for land and water then the NEO and the PL Twinskins are the optimum choices. If you plan on flying on land only, then I suggest sticking with the open cell ram-air foils like the Montana's and Frenzy's just because they are so much easier to set up, launch, land, take down etc... Basically just throw them out on the snow, walk your lines out, tug once or twice and your done.

Hope this helps.

@awindofchange

Your post was very helpful. As mentioned in my last reply, while you were typing your reply, I'm about 160lb. I have my eye set on the local lake that will freeze over and the lake front field. We get mostly wet packed snow here (Wisconsin), then there is the ice. I'm thinking the Montana 9.5 if I get get the wife to let me spend the extra money otherwise the Apex 10m. Still have to buy a harness...

I think that either one would be a great choice. I would lean towards the Montana myself, but the Apex is still an awesome kite that will work great for you.

Another option may be to search the for sale section or post up a wanted, someone may be willing to part with one which could save you some cash.