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It is called "man lifting" and you should not be doin that. All it would take is for one of you to get seriously hurt,and I bet they will stop you from using that field. You gotta keep that in the back of your mind all the time. Don't help the powers that be, ban our sport all together. And if ya do stoopid stuff ,certainly don't post it for all authorities and insurance cos to see. This kind of thing makes us look irresponsible and dangerous. Not to mention " Do you really wanna see what your femur looks like?"

Yeah, bad idea for all the reasons stated. The cues I was getting were not that of 20 mph gusting to 30 though. No way you could've launched, flown and landed that kite the way you did with winds over 20 and certainly not with gusts to 30. Keep flying but don't be tying yourself down.

I am glad nobody was hurt, critically injured, or killed.

Lucky the harness gave out first!

I glad that little post didn't pull out and crack one of them in the back of the head. Or run through them.

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Originally posted by rocfighter I glad that little post didn't pull out and crack one of them in the back of the head. Or run through them.

or that they didn't drive that post into a buried gas, water, or electrical utility that people miraculously find when driving objects into the ground.
...looks like fun (always is until someone gets hurt) but find a private area to do the "outright Stupid Fun stuff" in so "they" can't hassle you (and others) for ever and to the end.
Paul

Quote:

Originally posted by revpaul but find a private area to do the "outright Stupid Fun stuff" in so "they" can't hassle you (and others) for ever and to the end.

:puzzled: :puzzled: :puzzled:

Unfortunately, some of those "private areas" tend to be harder for EMTs to reach..... especially in smaller towns.

If a tree falls on you in the forest, there will still be compound fractures regardless of whether anyone hears it or not.

ATB,
Sam

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Originally posted by Midgaar If you want to be "safe" in your buggy all day then by all means, just don't get upset when someone else doesn't.

Not trying to piss you off or say your an idiot, some of us can and will speak from experience. Your right this is an extreme sport, I know more than most of you. Been there, done that, ain't going back to the hospital for anything short of death next time. Can you say Flail Chest?
I sorry to hear you caved into peer pressure, hopefully next time you are a bit stronger. I might sound like an ahole but your the one bragging, not me.

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If you want to be "safe" in your buggy all day then by all means, just don't get upset when someone else doesn't.

Nothing that "safe" about doing 40-50 mph in a 111 lb. buggy w/ no brakes. Yes, it is an extreme sport but next week it could very well be an "illegal" sport.

BTW, I also landboard , jump ,body drag, etc. You ever wipe out on a landboard at 35 mph? Does'nt feel very "safe",even w/ all the impact protection on.

If you keep on "misusing" your traction kite, it will bite you in the a$$. Somebody stop me if I'm lying

not tryin to be a d#@& , but we all love this sport and are trying to foster it while others are trying to squash it. Glad you are liking powerkiting,but please help spread safety amongst your peers. Be the leader ,not the follower....

WG

It is so fortunate that the harness was the only thing busted in that Jack Ass stunt.

What you guys were doing only fits under Extreme in the extremely STUPID way ! You sure weren't power kiting? You weren't even going about manlifting right ! If you want to try and call what you do extreme , do it right ! THAT is what extreme athletes do ! There was no skill or athleteic abilaty involved in tying yourself to a post and then super manning ? Just peer pressure.

Bragging about using kite gear to act the fool and then putting it online isn't cool! :megan:

Most of you were obviously offended and/or disgusted by our "jack ass stunt" so my bad for sharing it with you. I will refrain from posting any more antics I may see in the future. Last I checked I lived in America, I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure you can't make something illegal because it's dangerous or because people get hurt doing it. No, I don't want to see locations lost because of things like this ether. I wasn't taking a shot at anyone in buggies with my safe buggy comment, I only picked the buggy because it seemed the safest out of all the other methods of kite sport.

I still stand by my belief that our "jack ass stunt" was much more harmless then some of the posters have made it out to be and I'm certain that had we not been tied down, someone would have been hurt. But I completely understand why so many of you are upset, so I will try not to publicly make the sport "look bad" anymore. I will certainly not share if I do.

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Originally posted by Midgaar Last I checked I lived in America, I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty sure you can't make something illegal because it's dangerous or because people get hurt doing it. No, I don't want to see locations lost because of things like this ether. I wasn't taking a shot at anyone in buggies with my safe buggy comment, I only picked the buggy because it seemed the safest out of all the other methods of kite sport. I still stand by my belief that our "jack ass stunt" was much more harmless then some of the posters have made it out to be and I'm certain that had we not been tied down, someone would have been hurt. But I completely understand why so many of you are upset, so I will try not to publicly make the sport "look bad" anymore. I will certainly not share if I do.

We have an entire forum here devoted to areas that it is illegal to participate in power kite activities because municipalities want to shed the liability of "dangerous activities". So proving or drawing attention to a dangerous activity can have it "dealt with" on the agenda for the next city council meeting. It's happened lots of places already so don't think that getting hurt will only affect you. It can affect all of us. All power kite activities involve risk but many activities you can do over and over while minimizing your risk. Manlifting is one of those things that something breaks almost every time.

Kiting CAN be banned for posting stuff such as that. Basically it just adds more fuel to the fire for those involved with trying to get the sport banned believe it cause it can happen.

The basic straight forward point to understand here is that if you CANNOT CONTROL AND EFFECTIVELY PILOT the kite you are flying without being strapped down to a post that you shouldn't be flying it in those conditions. Granted there are people who do fly in those conditions but they are PROFESSIONALS. In the event that you did get let go from the anchor point you would have been dragged around and badly beaten or worse. You say that your wife is an RN that doesn't change the fact that she would have to stand there and watch your ass get hauled off uncontrollably, and the possibility of you dying in the act. It may be a extreme sport but those who push the boundary know what they are doing and know how to react if #@%$#! hits the fan. To top it off you strapped someone else with less experience than you meaning they are in even more danger than you were.

No one is saying that you shouldn't try to push the limits but it should be in steps so that you can fully understand the situation before its too late. Keep up with the passion and use your enthusiasm to progress safely so that in a few years, you can be the one soaring high over piers or gliding down off of cliffs. The people here don't mean to sound like they are scolding you, but more like educating you of the risks that you may not of been aware of. Everyone here loves watching a member pulling off amazing moves, we just wanna make sure that you don't hurt yourself and get scared away. Sorry for sounding rude but before you start trying to disprove the advice given here, remember that many of them have been around kites almost from the beginning and have seen or experienced the best and worst of what this sport has to offer, to me that means more that a little bit of hurt pride.

Keep grinning and fly safe
shaggs

Great reply Midgaar.

I'm not saying we don't all pull " jack ass stunts ". We are the kind of people who push it. Add a bit of peer pressure and stir !

Show your friends and all but posting that stuff doesn't help the sport.

The fact that someone was going to get hurt by too much kite doesn't make strapping them to a pole a better choice ? I don't get that logic?

Quote:

The basic straight forward point to understand here is that if you CANNOT CONTROL AND EFFECTIVELY PILOT the kite you are flying without being strapped down to a post that you shouldn't be flying it in those conditions.

I absolutely, full-heartedly, agree with that statement! Always have, all ways will. That was the first bad idea! The second being this post.

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The fact that someone was going to get hurt by too much kite doesn't make strapping them to a pole a better choice ? I don't get that logic?

He didn't want to get launched 40-50ft in the air like we've seen on many many you-tube videos. We had rope in the truck and a nice sturdy anchor, and the idea was borne. And we succeeded on keeping him a SAFE distance from the ground. It looked fun and safe enough so I gave it a shot as well. 5 jumps were made before the harness broke which was only because of where we tied the rope to the harness, then we called it a night.

In any case I'd rather not draw anymore attention to this posting mistake, so I'm done.

Could someone explain the difference between "manlifting" and kite jumping to me?

I can only assume that with manlifting (deemed as very dangerous, stupid, and not socially acceptable to anyone here) the kite is always generating enough pull to yank you in the air and away you go never to see the ground again....well not for awhile anyway.

And with kite jumping (still dangerous but apparently socially acceptable here) you move the kite around enough to temporarily generate enough power to be lifted and then set down softly....

Am I off base here or is there another difference between the two activities that makes one ok and the other not? To me it seems with kite jumping I am intentionally doing something to be lifted and manlifting I would be out of control overpowered????:dunno:

Think of a guy (women are too smart) harnessed to a kite, and then attached to a long line that is secured to a fixed object on the ground. Being tethered to the ground while being lofted like a tea bag somehow makes the Gomers feel safe. Famous last words: "Hey everybody, watch this!"

The Spanish Inquisition would have been intrigued. Enter a Mel Brooks musical.....

Yeah I got that much...I just see that as uncontrolled vs. kite jumping as at least attempted control. I don't disagree that what he was doing was dangerous...I am just trying to understand why everyone sees that as so unacceptable and kite jumping is ok. The only difference I can determine is the control involved with kite jumping vs. just being completely over powered.

The difference is that your body weight is the only thing that the kite can build up resistance against when you are just jumping. With man lifting, the potential energy build up is limited only by the weakest link in the system. Then you are in a vulnerable position when your system is missing a piece like a power line and you are hovering off the ground while your kite is doing powered loops smashing you into the ground every turn with great force since it can't drag you across the ground which reduces the power of the kite. When all this is going on, it might be difficult to pop your safety release.

i think that the only some what safe way to do this sort of stuff is being pulled up on a long rope behind a boat over a deep body of water

My guess is man-lifting overloads the kite ... if you kite-jump, you load the kite and it yoinks you but as the kite is drifting downwind or moving to the edge of the window, it'really only supporting your weight, like a parachute. If you were tethered, then the potential is there to load the kite until something breaks - in this case, the harness.


EDIT : doh what BBob said

That makes sense. Plus in this particular case if something breaks and drops you on the stake you were tethered to.....instant person kabob! Just add fire and rotate!

There are other devices you can use to do this. Using a kite to do this is like using twine to build a bridge. Sure you can do it, it might work, or you might die. Seasoned thrill seekers are not slackers on safety. There a fine line between genius and stupidity, but the line is pretty clear between safely and stupidly. My take is do it right or don't do it at all.

the reason you should NEVER tow yourself to a fixed object is the so called "lockout effect":

http://www.gleitschirm-magazin.com/article.php3?id_article=1...


1. you get lifted.
2. due to wind gradient the wind above is much stronger. add a gust on top of that...
3. the rope gets loaded very strongly. maybe > 100 kg load...
4. the paraglider, even more a powerkite or tubekite cant take that load and breaks out to one side, performing a 180° turn to ease the load (why the turning happens i cant explain - ask the experts....)
5. still connected to the rope you are accelerated and rammed directly into the ground with the help of appearent wind with more than 100 km/h. no one can survive this.
6. dead pilot / powerkiter.

for more details, search for "paraglider lockout"

here is a video showing a near fatal lockout:
http://www.archive.org/details/AlexWParaglidingTowLockout
luckily, the rope broke before the pilot was smashed into ground. you can see the heavy load if you watch the canopy.

here is another video... even hand towing can be dangerous, if the guys holding the rope dont let go..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnsJqRX8lfE

but thats is - surprisingly no more lockout effect videos ?!?

I saw a video on youtube a while back of some one with a large power kite tied to a railing I think. All was fine untill he was in the air and got turned around and this caused him to loose control of the kite and it slammed him into the ground extremely hard. But then the kite took off again and looped and slammed him again. At this point some one got to him.
A good reason not to do this.

For a moment there Herc, I thought that was a Pansh Ace 12

"You might just be a red-neck if ... "

kami, true true.. those paragliders are nothing else but scaled up powerkites.. or are powerkites just scaled down paragliders ;-) ?

its all the same.. the open cells.. steering via brakes.. the cascaded bridles..
so anyone who powerkites and has good control of their kites, can immideately grasp and understand paragliding. its a huge plus.
basically, kami - you already have a paraglider now -- your silver arrow
you can practice groundhandling with it - just fly it without lines and put that thing into your harness:

here - the inspiring and fantastic videos from sylvaine, parakiting at dune du pyla:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cuUEguoQbq0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSsKAzyKzhc