I remember seeing a thread here last winter where I think it was the dutch boys riding their buggies on skates. Does anyone know where one can get a set and how much they would run a guy??? If there isn't much snow here I was thinking that this would be fun on the lakes. Or does one have to make a set himself

I think they were Apexx (custom) blades. You might check with Ric to see if they do make them for PL buggies, or you could just take it out on the ice with barrows, if the surface is not glass smooth there might be enough bite to get going, I had my buggy on the ice last spring, there was a couple inches of snow that had partly melted, then refroze, and I was having a blast, getting upwind, sliding around like mad!

I was thinking about the same thing for this winter. I was thinking about having some brackets and bolting on some hockey skate runners.

http://www.hockeygiant.com/ccm08plssrunsr.html

Just make the brackets as tall as the tire radius to get your butt off the ice...

Plus with standard runners you could have them sharpened at any hockey shop.

both Libre and Apexx makes them. I'm sure Ricardo or Jon Ellis at KBSS could get them for you. They're a blast in the winter here when the lakes freeze over. If I recall correctly they are expensive but worth it as they are very well built.

i've always had an eye on blades too. Wolfwolfie made a very nice set for his Flexi buggy and i tried the rig out.

there was too much snow on the lake (not a lot of snow just too much for blades). no way i could turn the front blade in the couple/few inches of icey/slushy/snow mixture. it was just like a having a front tire(s) in a deep, narrow rut(s). could only manage a couple short down winder runs as trying to launch kite with buggy pointed (more so) on a beam, like I normally do on wheels, only proved to flip me over the first two tries. i do launch while sitting in the seat though. if i had launched the kite then sat on buggy i prolly would have been able to manage some straight one way(no turns) beam runs. i just gave up and slapped on some skis/harness instead.

if you can fab, you can make anything it seems. coolbreeze and wolfee both made their own blades. XXtreme Products makes ice blades and are the best build for the $$$. i only say that since I know that Ruudje will take the time to make it perfect as a custom. http://xxtreme.nl/iceskates.html

MG also makes one and Libre as well in production and before PL use to make a snow conversion kit but its not available anymore. can i suggest you the ice sled???

@indo_wolf can we get some repost past links up for reference. hehehe. thank you.

Quote:

Originally posted by rippsessionkites @indo_wolf can we get some repost past links up for reference. hehehe. thank you.

No more stroopwafels for you !!!!.... or your horse :P

Will dig up links tonight or tommorow unless someone else gets to it first. System work tonight...oh yeah.

ATB,
Sam

Quote:

Originally posted by indigo_wolf Quote: Originally posted by rippsessionkites @indo_wolf can we get some repost past links up for reference. hehehe. thank you. No more stroopwafels for you !!!!.... or your horse :P Will dig up links tonight or tommorow unless someone else gets to it first. System work tonight...oh yeah. ATB, Sam

Custom Apexx skates for sale. Will fit most kite buggies. Skates are new in original packaging. No shipping cost within the US. If interested contact me at. (orietmc@clear.net ) :wee::eekdrull::wee:

Charlies a non believer!!!:singing:

Well this was my cheap solution to this problem. In my mind it seams like it should work but I'll be interested to hear everyones opinion as i am a very inexperienced buggier and have yet to try these out. I don't get alot of real clean ice but instead am looking for something to do when the snowpack is too thin for snowkiting on the frozen lakes... something that is a little more all terrain than skates.

I went to the local bike shop and got a bunch of used bike chain for free (do this before the middle of winter as they all told me to check back in the summer). Then I made lengths of chain just shorter than the circumference of my tires and I made these chains into loops. Then I let some air out of my tires, centered the chain right down the middle and inflated the tires again. What I ended up with was a stock buggy wheel with a metal ridge running right down the middle. The chains seemed to be rock solid on the tires, but like i said i haven't tried it yet. But it couldn't have went together any better than i had pictured.

I like this idea for several reasons. I tried studded tires but my elbows were too close and now I need a new jacket. Also it still retains all of its rolling characteristics and should work well on hard snow pack not just ice. I gues it depend on how well the chans stay on the tires once I really put a load on them.

Let me know what you think and I'll let you know how they work, sometime in Jan.

Just curious if there are any safety concerns with the blades? Seems that a bad spill could end with some rather nasty lacerations. All I can think of is the video of the goalie who gets a skate to the neck in a hockey game - didn't want to post the video - a tad too harsh to watch - but I think you get the point by the description.

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Originally posted by flexiblade Just curious if there are any safety concerns with the blades? Seems that a bad spill could end with some rather nasty lacerations. All I can think of is the video of the goalie who gets a skate to the neck in a hockey game - didn't want to post the video - a tad too harsh to watch - but I think you get the point by the description.

its not for the inexperienced to be using blades.

http://vimeo.com/9710979

bigbenmi thanks for posting . I was just going to ask if any one has actualy studded thier tires and what problems they encountered. I will be trying your idea , 3 chains vs 150 screws , 3 sacrified tires , a tube or 2 , a scratchED up rim , I really like your idea!
BOBALOOIE ITS GETTING NEAR TIME TO BREAK OUT THE CHAINS.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigbenmi I went to the local bike shop and got a bunch of used bike chain for free (do this before the middle of winter as they all told me to check back in the summer). Then I made lengths of chain just shorter than the circumference of my tires and I made these chains into loops. Then I let some air out of my tires, centered the chain right down the middle and inflated the tires again. What I ended up with was a stock buggy wheel with a metal ridge running right down the middle. The chains seemed to be rock solid on the tires, but like i said i haven't tried it yet. But it couldn't have went together any better than i had pictured. Also it still retains all of its rolling characteristics and should work well on hard snow pack not just ice. I gues it depend on how well the chans stay on the tires once I really put a load on them. Let me know what you think and I'll let you know how they work, sometime in Jan.

I'll be surprised if the chain doesn't roll off when you side load the buggy. Maybe if it sits down in some grooves in the tires it might stay. Maybe a commercial solution for lawn mower tire chains used for snow plowing. That's gonna be lots of rolling resistance though. Seems like knobbly tires with short screws into the tread to act as studs would be the best bet for getting on ice with tires.

Quote:

Originally posted by bigbenmi Then I made lengths of chain just shorter than the circumference of my tires and I made these chains into loops. Then I let some air out of my tires, centered the chain right down the middle and inflated the tires again. What I ended up with was a stock buggy wheel with a metal ridge running right down the middle. The chains seemed to be rock solid on the tires, but like i said i haven't tried it yet. But it couldn't have went together any better than i had pictured. I like this idea for several reasons. I tried studded tires but my elbows were too close and now I need a new jacket. Also it still retains all of its rolling characteristics and should work well on hard snow pack not just ice. I gues it depend on how well the chans stay on the tires once I really put a load on them.

Errrr...ummm.... I just went to the closet and found my Chicken Little suit (it was right behind the otter suit all along :wow: ).

This sounds sketchy....

• As the chain flexes, it's going to be constantly abrading the tires. Compared to snow chains which has a predominantly round profile, bicycle chains have a distinct "shoulder" to them.
  
  
• As the plates and spacers ice up, the are going to flex with some hiccups through the rotation cycle.
  
  
• Biggest concern is what happens if you side load the tires and peel the chain off. If the temperture drops or you take the tires from the interior or the car, there's going to be some pressure reduction which is all that's holding on the chains.
  
  
• If the chain peels to the outside, maybe not a big deal immediately except for scaring some hibernating gophers ("Mildred, WTF was that!"). But it is debris (possibly airborne) for anyone directly behind you to pick up on their tires/skates/skis.
  
  
• If it peels to the inside, your essently going to have a bicycle chain dragging behind you... but lassoed to the axle.
  
  
• On the front side, it doesn't matter which way it peels because of the fork, it's either going to jam or flail your ankle/leg (which may not be that bad with boots/snow gear on).

No more pepperoni before sleep.

ATB,
Sam

Get Kold Kutter screws here. We had them on a bike and they stick like glue.

https://koldkutter.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_22&osC...

On the topic of a blade holder for hockey blades...
Attached are is a photo of a blade holder made for MBS ATB trucks used for a Freeskate board that I made for my wife a few years ago. The holder is Aluminum Window frame materialfound in a metal salvage yard. A friend tried to use sharpened hockey blades in a similar set up prior to making this set. There wasn't sufficient bite with the hollow ground blade to make good headway. He ground them to 45 degrees on either side on a disc sander and it worked great. Hockey skates only really bite the ice when they are on edge. My wife isn't so good on skates, so I made this for her to use with one of her small windsurfing sails attached to the board. It made her a better windsurfer - it was easy for her to learn to jibe on water that didn't move.

A similar type of holder could be made for a buggy, but I think a bigger beefier blade for a bug might work better.

another photo of the blade holder

The custom Apexx ice skates have a neww home now for this winter. Think You MontyO :wee: :Ange09::wee:

Just got a set of 30" DN iceboat runners (blades) from an iceboat buddy.
We were discussing ways of mounting the runners on the buggy and we all came to the conclusion that it may not be worth the effort making brackets and spacers and the PL Buggy will not have a large enough stance and will be unstable at speed.

Soooo, I may build a "boat" using a 2x6 frame and 2x8 plank (axle) where I can just use standard DN ice boat hardware: runner/steering chocks (brackets) and bar extension foot steering. Something like this but without the sail rig and a single lower mesh seat and backrest.

http://www.cherrywoodmedia.com/Plans/IceBoat/iceboat-lake.ht...

Hey Jaymz -

Adapting those runners to a buggy may be problematic, but before you bail on an ice buggy, the heeling moment has got to be way less than on an iceboat. Kite force is directed along a line down into your harness, nearer the CG of you and the buggy. It's not up in a sail. You may not have the wheelbase you want, but the width may not be necessary.

krumly

You won't have stability problems on your PL Jaymz. We run them in the winter here and I know Paul runs a set on his Libre Special which is roughly the same size as a PL. I've found it to be just the opposite actually,,,,,the buggy seems more stable than it is on tires. It's great fun out on the ice:wee:. I'll see if I have a pic of my setup and send it over to you.

Thanks for the encouragment guys. Pictures of your setup would be great Dean. U2U sent.
I thought about using the ice boat runner chocks/brackets and pillow blocks, but I'd need to be sure that there would be enough height to get my butt off the ice.

What if you made three identical pairs of aluminum plates that sandwiched the runner chocks. Basically designed to get the same runner to axle bolt distance as you have with wheels. Bolt some spacers between the plates that are just a hair wider than the chock-chock width so the runner/chock units can pivot without binding. The top spacer and hole would be set up for the axle bolts, with additional tubular spacers in the front one to set the fork blade spacing.

krumly

We've used a mixture of skis and blades over the years here. The biggest problem is surface conditions. The skis generally need carbides to catch and edge as you ride between snow and the odd ice patches. Hardpack crusty snow is good but once it gets a bit deeper or a little warmer the skis really bog down. (This was using the snowmobile skis). Homemade ski variations worked about the same. With a ski it is fine for turning on snow but not nearly as sharp to turn as a blade would.
The blades are awesome and really fast but everything needs to rock and leave a little room to self align - running one at a slight angle just slows you down. The blades hold like riding on rails but you can also kick the buggy sideways to slough off speed. The blades need to be the sharpest and hardest you can make them because the rougher ice can really take the edge off quickly - especially when you start to scuff them sideways.
When running blades you need to go out and check your possible lines of travel really well. We get ruts and pressure cracks and all kinds of things that the blade could drop into and twist quickly. Had this happen once when I really ripping down a lake and the front end turned 90 degrees and a footpeg weld snapped and I went sliding a long way out of the buggy. It's rare that we get the nice mirror smooth ice - haven't seen it in at least 5 years. So skis are more versatile but not as fast and you have some steering issues. Blades very fast but you need good conditions.

Markite -

What do you think of the idea of using snowmobile skis but replacing the carbides with some custom inserts with a blade configuration. Nothing too deep - maybe just a strip shaped and ground like iceboat runners, but welded to a rod configuration similar to the carbides? We get very few days of decent black ice - I think iceboaters get a few days a year, and then spend the rest of the time driving all over looking for good ice. But we do get a lot of time with windblown snow, drifts, and patchy glare ice.

krumly

yah, you don't need much on the skis, just enough to edge on the ice patches. And not too deep so that it catches and slows you down if going on crusty snow. There was a guy in Quebec doing something similar and Tim here in Ontario has been playing around with skis a lot. I'll see if I can dig up any pics from the bottom of the ski.

Sent pics over to Jaymz the other day but didn't have time to put them on the forum.

I went the route of making a ski blade combination. As you can see in the pics the ski's are 'ski skins' from snowmobiles, the brackets are made from 1/4 inch steel, and the blades are 1/4 inch 304 stainless. The blades have a 60 degree bevel which works fantastic on the ice. Last winter was the first winter on them and I was very happy with the results. On ice the buggy rides the same as if you had Libre or Apexx blades but as you get into deeper snow you just keep going. I was very happy with being able to get blade performance with the added benefit of being able to blast through the snow as well. I've only been out in around 6 inches of snow at the deepest but was happy with their performance. With the blades sticking out from underneith the ski's you get very good lateral stability in the deeper snow as well.

One change for this year is to tap the blade so no bolt head will be protruding from beneath the ski so as to eliminate any drag due to the bolt heads.

Hope to see some of you guys out on the ice:wee:

Dean, those look sweet...looks like a nice ice/snow combo solution.