Hey all,

Doing a bit more looking into Peter Lynn kites.

2 questions...

1) Just wondering about the wind range for a 12 and 15 synergy/charger for landboarding and snowkiting. Let's assume short grass, and a decent hard pack base with a skiff of powder.

2) For the sake of practicality, if it turns out to be impossible to get a hold of a used synergy. How would the wind range of the charger differ from the synergy?

thanks

ps, as a side note, I was reading some posts the other day from this forum, and read that Peter Lynn sells way more arcs in Europe. Has anybody stumbled across any european arc sites that sell used??

your weight would help? @200lbs, ch15 /ATB starts gettting good around 12-15mph and full on in 20mph.

for me ch12 would work in sub 20 but preffered the ch15 speed . a lighter rider would find solid performance in the Ch 12 on just about anything. very fast kite, easy placement in the window with snappy loops. syn/ charger are pretty close, with charger being faster.

no snow here.

kite crowd forum maybe for used gear.

of course, missed that obvious point
175lbs

10knots for me, 115lbs ... than again i like to ride O-P.

been a while, but may as well re-visit this.

10 knots to start.......is that for the 12 or the 15?

I can be overpowered with the syn in the buggy after 18 or so, but could handle it in probably 30 mph on water. I weigh 225 lbs though so I need more kite. I really need 20 to ride decently powered on water with the 15 syn. I've been wondering lately if the 19 might be the more appropriate kite for me given my weight. I don't get much opportunity to get on the water so my 15/19 dilemma will be unsolved for awhile I guess. I had a 12 syn and would really need 22-24 to get well powered with it on water and I'm sure I could ride it into the mid 30s mph. The 12 syn would be good for me in the buggy up over 20 mph. Remember my weight and that I have an Ivanpah buggy regarding the numbers I'm giving you. I don't have any experience with a Bomba so I can't compare it to a syn for you. I would imagine the newer kite would have more power and turn faster than an older model to hear others talk.

I'm 200#. I ride snow exclusively and the 15m Charger handles 90% of the winds I encounter. Probably 6-25(sketch @25) kts.

Pending on surface conditions. Low wind I have to work it a little, high wind she's trimmed a bit.

The Chargers have a huge depow range compared to previous Arcs.

I have had the 12m out in 30 kts plus. She's twitchy at that wind speed and builds a lot of power quickly. I've had the 12m Syn in 35kts+ and she did great.

Thanks for the input Beamerbob. Never buggied before, but it does give me a rough idea.

Feyd, wow, that's great wind range on land for both kites! what would you say is the lowest wind the 12 could go, well let's say the absolute lowest to get going and then the lowest to actually have fun (jumps start)? This is not so much for actually pushing the lower end as much as possible, but just making sure wind ranges between kites actually matches up well.

But, if the 15 gets that type of usable range...wow, that could be a cool purchase as well.
So, here is an interesting question, could a 15 function as my high wind kite? My psycho4 12 is rated to 25 knots top, on water!
If it could, the 15 would be a very versatile kite. If I were to get the 12, I would be worried it would just sit around too much.

Low end on the 12m is a good question. To be honest I have'nt flown her hardly enough to give you a good answer because I'm on the 15m so much. On the ice I would guess (guess) she would get you going on smooth ice at about 10 mphand carry a good speed. Deeper snow I bet you could get going but not very fast and you'd have to work the kite a bit. Honestly I've flown the 12m maybe 4 times since I've had it. Nice when you need it but with a 15m I rarely use the 12m.

The 15m has impressed the hell out of me with it's wind range. No, it's not what I would consider a high wind kite by anymeans but with some muscle and it's depow abilty you can get away with a hell of a lot at the top end. We had one session on one of local big lakes where a friend of mine got trapped by high winds on his 12m Syn. I was out on the 15m Charger doing speed runs in the same spot and having a ball.

This was about 10 miles out. I didn't bring a backup wing so I could "put my money where my mouth is" about the depow that I thought the Charger had. He saw that I had one wing and did the same. I had to fly upwind the 10 miles to get the car and drive 40 minutes to where he was and pick him up. I did a post on it in the blog.

http://hardwaterkiter.blogspot.com/2010/02/two-men-enter-one...

If you were going to pick on Charger I would go with a 15m. There's so much overlap it's really hard to decide what to get. If you're using it for land use I'm not sure if any of my imput helps because I'm not familiar with the resistance you get on land. But on the snow the 15m is as close to a one kite quiver as I've seen yet.

The Syn is different. Much tamer, calmer than the Charger. The Charger likes to be flown agressively though it still has cruising in it. A lot of people seem to be prefering the Syn lately because of it mellower attributes. The best thing I can suggest is finding some you can try and see what they do for you. All these kites do different things for different people and the kite will only fly as well as the pilot that's attached to it.

Hi KiteDelight,
I found this site might be useful for PL windrange. It will calculate it for you for your weight.
Cheers
Gabe
http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/articles/mx5alan/arc-wind-ra...

I have become very comfortable with my 15m Syn. I am pretty sure I could love my 15m Charger just as much but don't have enough time in to be " at 1 " with it. It is supposed to have a better bottom end than my Syn but I haven't figured out how to spank it or something ?

I am only 150lbs. I can ride pretty much as soon as the 15m Syn is filled with work. A large Fixed bridle is still essential. I can hold my Syn into the mid 20'kts and am a wimp! It is almost a 1 kite , kite. Once the winds are too strong for my Syn I revert to presevation mode. Used to go to a 2.5 profoil but have other options now.

I am sure I could get as much and more out of my 15m Charger . I just need to get the time in on it.

Blade runner, mid 20 knots on land....that just might work for me. Thinking about this summer, I am really not sure I will be out in much more anyway.

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feyd...he got stuck with his 12 and you were on your 15?? Does that charger have that much more depower than the synergy, or are you just that much more experienced than the other guy? or.... a bit of both?

Either way, I'll probably be sticking to the synergy if possible (ie, used market). The charger sounds cool, but really, I already have one high performance kite, and I would rather have something mellower for any higher winds.

Feyd, ya, you've only pulled out the 12 about 4 times. I guess this is why I am leaning towards the 15. I am sure I would pull a syn 12 out more because my p4 12 doesn't have the range your describing for your charger 15; however, a synergy 12 may just sit around too much for my liking.

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So, this has got me thinking a bit more than just 'high wind', and pinning down exactly the wind range I'll be needing. It will mainly be used for landboarding, because that is where my p4 12 kinda kicks my butt. I am able to hold it down for a decent wind range when snowkiting, but landboarding is a different story.

So, I guess, really, when I think about it, I probably won't need anything that will go above about 30knots on land, and that's probably snowkiting. For landboarding, something that can handle between 30 and 45 kph, I guess that's 16knots (roughly 18mph) to 25knots (roughly 30mph). Can the 15 handle this relatively comfortably (ie, not feeling like I am going to get seriously lofted or hurt at the 25 knot mark)? or is this 12 territory?

We rarely get anything in the summer above the 45kph range, and seldom in the winter for that matter. If the Synergy 15 can pull off, than I think the 15 may do it.

The 15 is definatly my go to kite. If you are wanting a more mellow kite then you are probably better off with the synergy since the charger is a little more aggressive. If you are landboarding and are wanting to jump definatly go with the larger kite. It may be a little rough in 25mph winds, but its much better to have float down with a bigger kite instead of being picked up high and then dropping fast. I really only use my 13m in winds over 22 or 23mph. 24mph gusting to mid 30's is about the range for my 13m kite. If i'm going to be jumping with the smaller kite I want plenty of wind to help float me down easier. let us know what you chose

interesting. In the range I talked about above, would the syn 12 have a floaty jump? Another question, when does the 12 start to jump, and when does it start to become floaty? I know this is getting pretty precise, but hey, may as well ask. Though, I am starting to wonder if anybody has flown their 12 enough to actually find this out. lol.


I guess my decision comes down to this...

1) get a larger kite (syn 15) that will be used much more often and can still handle the winds I need them. It would jump better, but would feel a bit shaky at the higher wind range I am looking at using it.

2) get a smaller kite (Syn 12), which will be used less often, but would handle very well the upper range I need it to work at. But, jumps will not be as good until the wind picks up sufficiently (....don't currently know that range it starts though).

I guess I am trying to thread the needle and balance pros and cons; realistically, the 12 would match my current kite the best, but the 15 is intriguing me because I wouldn't mind having an arc that I could use more often too - so, I could switch it up between that and the P4 if the wind is right. And, the better floaty jumps would be nice too as the P4 is nice and floaty.

ya, I need to make a decision, but, ideally I actually need to track down a decently priced used speed2 15 SA first. For a low wind kite, didn't need to do much research there. But, it's the used market, where ideal decisions are replaced by practical ones - buying what becomes available. So, if the right Synergy becomes available first, might have to go that route. The speed2 may just have to wait until the springtime.

It is a balance indeed. Personally I'd go with the 15 if you can find one available. You can definatly do big floaty jumps with the 12m is fully lit. I'm 165 pounds and my 13m v2 starts to jump5-7 feet in the air at about 17-18 mph at least. Now a synergy is faster, so you might be able to get a little better low end. I just don't know the low end for sure since I actually haven't used a 12m synergy

I hope this can be helpful

It helps if the venom II 13 is close to the synergy.

Can anyone confirm the synergy 12 would do the same?

I have Syn 12 on my living room floor ..... waiting for a first flight tomorrow ....however .... I am a beginner and this is my first de-power kite ... I am taking it out tomorrow because of low wind ~ 12mph to try get it safely up in air ..... I got it on ebay for $450 and seller told me that his syn15 will be next to go ..... so look for listing soon if you want to save some $$$$$

thanks for the tip, I do have a potential 15 available already. But, I'll probably check it out anyway.

I just asked some more experienced kiters about the common wind ranges in the mountain lake that is common to kite at, and the first range is 20-35kph (which my kite can handle), and if it is higher than that, it is most likely ranging from 35 to 50kph. So, sounding like a high wind kite is gonna need to handle 50kph without a problem. That seems to push the safety limit of the 15. The 12 might be a better option.

But, the 15 just sounds like a great kite, especially for landboarding in the summer. Might just have to pick up both eventually.

Kober - IMHO you'll need more wind ... it'll be tough to launch I reckon but I could be wrong :D
kitedelight - personally, I wouldn't go out in 50kph on land but that's just me

mmm, not with the 12?? how about a 10?

I wouldn't landboard in 50kpm, that's for sure, but snowkiting, maybe. I know guys that have (the guys I bounced the info off of).

...... I MAKE it fly in 8mph..... and you right .... hard to get it going.... few power pulls when looping and when gusty pass by.... anyhow.... that was good practice.... tomorrow will try again if wind picks up ..... I inflate kite very quickly with 18v makita blower.... perfect for this .... small and powerful.... I got MBS core landboard yesterday on ebay..... protective gear in Sport Authority ..... and now.... hopefully after spending all $$$$ on toys I have enough time to practice