For making me purchase ANY other brand for my next board.

(all quotes are from a GI employee)

When I call with service questions you never return my call..FOR MONTHS.

When I do get ahold of you, you say "Oh, we moved, we've been busy." Too busy to answer a customer questions For MONTHS?

When I call with service questions, don't direct me to home depot. If I could find what I was looking for at home depot, then don't you think I would have bought it already? "Ah, well, it's not necessary for all the screws to match" Yes, well, I want them to, and not at the cost of replacing every single one of them from the parts bin at home depot.

When I ask on the same call with website questions, don't tell me "We got hacked 4 months ago, and we cannot get the site fixed." I work in IT, so I know how incredibly boneheaded this statement is. (if you can't do a simple thing like restore from backup, how can I have any confidence you are securely storing my Credit Card number?)

So, PKF, what should I get next? I was thinking it was time for the bionic truck upgrades for me, but now I'm just sick of the non-responsiveness from GI. Owned my board for a couple years now, successful calls to GI=ZERO.

I'm not expecting white glove service where angels descend from upon high to tighten my components before every ride, but goddamit when you buy a #@%$#!ing skateboard that cost $400 you expect a LITTLE customer service.

I've been incredibly happy with the performance of the board, but I'm incredibly disappointed in the company that made it.

OH, I assume that if I had bought from one of the lovely store owners here I would not be having problems, but I bought from GI direct....and they've been nothing but useless. According to them, they have no record of me in the system or under warranty.

I guess the bright side is, if they've lost my account info then I need not worry about another hacker stealing my CC from them!

At NABXif you want to demo my trampa you are more than welcome to try it. Ted at trampa is good with getting back to you within 24-48 hours with your questions. Orders ship wicked fast and they personalize everything for you. Let mr know and I can put you into cantact with them

i stand true to MBS but i see the pplz with $$$ will go Trampa.

Next is another brand that is climbing the ropes over in europe and its big hit.

HUH. I have had nothing but stand-up service from GI. Yeah they are laid back about certain things - it is the south after all - but i find this works in my favor. The few times I have warranty issues, they have never blinked at replacing even an expensive component. When I order a board for a customer and they might be missing a component, then they upgrade it and no cost and that makes me look like a hero to my customer. My customers are really happy with GI products and I am happy with how they support my efforts.

Even I drop a phone call once in a great while.

Angus-hypothetical situation(totally not hypothetical): board owner calls and states that several bolts that connect the truck to the deck have sheared, and he would like to replace them with quality components that won't break again in the same manner. He would also like to find out if there are options for a stronger kingpin as he has seen several of those break.

Do you send him to home depot? :dunno:

David Rosenfeld , dave@groundindustries.com

this guy really went out of his way to make ALL GOOD.

your frozen disappointment is apparent, hope it thaws.

i certainly don't know the current details of GI operations. but frustration arrives at everyone's door... mine, yours, theirs.

noise gets attention...check.

kingpins, they break like pieces. and $$ TO REPLACE . the tighter you set them the quicker they break. there are creative ways to replace them but not that easy.

I can see you point on that one in at least how it was handled from a customer service standpoint, even if they were trying to suggest what was most expedient for you. When I source replacements for OEM hardware for buggies for example, I go to a commercial business-to-business fastener supplier who will not give me a blank stare when I ask about materials grade and engineering specifications. They normally can get what I need but sometimes they will even send me to Home Depot if they know that the common variety of a certain part will meet my or my customer's need. But at least then I am fully informed.

Quote:

Originally posted by acampbell But at least then I am fully informed.

Ah, this is very, very important to me.

Have to say that that's not the experience I have had with GI. No company is perfect, but in the past year or two:

• When I ordered riser plates, they threw in an obscene amount of spares.
  
• I ordered a hanger upgrade from a dealer and didn't specify color. Called GI up and they did a x-ship exchange. GI is East Coast like me, dealer is out west, so I figured cross-shipping in the same time zone would be fastest.
  
• When I was looking for Multi-Hubs, they scoured the rafters and called me back when they found a full set and put them to gets with tires, tubes and spares.
  
• Hung out on the phone with me, while they got me a shipping quote for some items to Shiga, Japan. They were actually pulling stock while they were on the phone with me and see how small a box they could fit stuff into to reduce shipping costs.
  
• No one else probably cares, but GI was able to confirm polyurethane pivot cups and not rubber within a day or so.
  
• I was looking for a board that they had sold out of, but they double checked anyway.... one of the GI employees in the warehouse ended up directing me to a shop in Greenville that they remembered still having the board. Gave me the store number and the owner's name to speak to.
  

Surprised that they directed you to Home Depot.... unless yours is better stocked than mine, the bolts that Home Depot carries aren't the right thread pitch.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't a kingpin upgrade available. MBS and GI either use Stainless or M6/M8 Chromoly. Trampa is the only ones I know that has the option for a Titanium kingpin, but I suspect even those will implode if you hammer them hard enough.

If you have the diameter, length, thread pitch for your current kingpin, it should be fairly easy to source a titanium one, but spendy (to give a ballpark Randall Titanium Kingpins (6AL-4V) for street boards are around $25 per truck).

Really, really sorry to hear about the bad experiences. If you are currently sidelined due to sheared bolts, let me know and I can order a hanger hardware kit for you through Kent (I am pretty sure he is closest to you and generally has them in stock).

My records show that GI was hacked June 7th/8th (need to get a life...sigh :sniff: )

If you have a Prodigy 90 board it should be dual drilled and be prepped for ATB Skate Trucks and Torsion Bioncs so it would be a straight out swap. Dirt Dave said that the Spring Bionics use the same patter as the Torsions, but you would have to drill for the spring tension adjusters.

If you are shearing bolts and worried about the kingpin, I would be equally worried about the baseplate. Across the board, the baseplates for skate trucks have almost no shoulder around the mounting holes. Base plates with a more robust shoulder would be easy enough to do without changing mounting patterns.

And they are to the best of my knowledge made of sintered metal. The reason that GI switched their Bionic hangers to from metal to Fiber Reinforced Nylon was that they found they hold up better to impact shocks. I expect no one's really that interested in building a better skate truck.... just seems kind of loopy to me to have titanium axles and a sintered baseplate.

If you are done with GI, there are enough proponents of MBS around and sources for boards/parts should be easy enough. Have heard a fair amount of MBS CS horror stories too, so that may be a wash. Up to you, if you want to spend the extra change for a Trampa.

You could also go with a Trampa Deck Only and MBS running gear if you don't mind doing the drilling/assembly yourself.

Hope it all works out.

ATB,
Sam

I've always had good customer service from GI. They make top notch boards. That is, when they actually have their current line-up in stock...

If you have the money, go for Trampa. I've no bad things to say about them. No amount of money could buy a better board than one that Trampa manufactures. Their customer service is great, and yes, they will make anything custom for you. MBS is great, but they are also distributed en masse, and I think Trampa makes a better, more personalized product with better customer service. Just my two cents.

Cheers,
Seanny

Before I started riding for Trampa i owned two different MBS boards. Whenever I ordered stuff from them, they we always quick to deliver and quick to respond. Of course I will speak highly of Trampa since I am a team rider, and they also make incredible product, but that doesn't mean that I have forgotten how well I was treated by MBS in the past. Good luck with your search....trampa has some great stuff, but if you don't have the money mbs is good to their customers....good luck!

yeah i feel the same way.... my board has alot of wheel bite no matter how much i tighten the trucks so i called them and emailed them to help me with the problem i even sent them pictures upon request then they just abandoned me.... they told me to tighten the bushings and i did and the metal part under the bolt is cutting the sides off the bushing WTF!#!@# how does that happen im kind of temped to just sand it down in the spots and make wells but idk yet

and i love my board its great and i especially love the bindings but within a month of riding they looked years old all torn up and ripped threads coming out for the price i would have liked somthing a little stronger

We carry a lot of the GI parts in stock. If there is something you need let me know and I may have it in stock or I can get it for you right away. I haven't had any problems at all dealing with GI, but we are one of their larger dealers and I realize that it may not be the same thing. I too am sorry you have been jaded by GI, normally I hear nothing but good things about them but everyone screws up at one time or another.

As for home depot, I too have directed some of our customers to their local nut-n-bolt supply stores for basic hardware, not because I didn't want to ship it to them or try to blow them off, but because the shipping costs usually end up costing 10 times what the bolts and nuts do from a local supply house. Normally you can purchase high strength stainless steel bolts for around .15 to .25 cents each. Shipping is at best $7.00 and then you have to pay a premium for the OEM bolts and nuts as well. For the price of one bolt set and shipping you could pick up a dozen sets from your local hardware supply. Not to mention that you can pick them up today instead of waiting a week to get them. Still, if you don't have a local supply that has a decent stock of the right bolts, we can surely ship them right out to you.

GI does make an awesome product, and because of their quickly growing success in the industry, they have had some growing pains. Their products are top notch and some of the best boards on the market. I am not trying to make any excuses for the way you have been treated, it is not acceptable customer service for sure. I am sorry you have had issues with getting replacement items but if you still need some help, give me a call and I am sure we can get you taken care of.

i'm tooling a kingpin from SS stock, it MAY be better.

I say "may" because all of it turns to junk. and REQUIRES constant maintenance.

i've been through A MOUNTAIN of great gear, the tires , the bearing, the trucks, the pins, the springs, the rims, the decks, the tubes, the bindings. trampa, yeah right 6 months and it will puke parts just like the rest, only its just expensive junk now.

i love to ride and knew from the start, ITs A HIGH WEAR, HIGH MAINTENANCE GIG. all things wear, all things break.

best you can do is kept the cycle going, stay with cross compatible parts, so you can harvest from tattered gear to kept primary gear solid. ERRATIC i think i sent you a wheel part or something from a pile ?? thats how it works.

buy one great board and be ready to buy another in about 500hours. then you'll have some bones to pick from in a few years.

the industry makes some outstanding gear and glad its available, they do a great job, all of them MBS, SCRUB , GI to mention some. materials , weight , durability, ease of repair all put together for CONSUMPTION...trampa i'm sure has premium stuff and it won't be long before one goes into the grind...and like all, start as "one" and end up in pieces from USE not abuse.

CJ, it sounds like you need to buy some harder bushings. if your bushings are too soft they will crack/puke. softer ones will crack faster. I've taught skateboarding camps since 2004 and worked in a couple of skateshops. something that people dont know about the bushings is that when you first have the new trucks you need to leave them factory loose for the first few sessions. after that they harden up and then you can tighten them up. if you tighten them up when they are new, then they harden after the first few sessions and thats how they crack. thats the secret to bushings. and like phreerider, some of us have a boneyard of old truck parts floating around our garages. good luck!

So myself being that employee that referred you to Home Depot....

"board owner calls and states that several bolts that connect the truck to the deck have sheared, and he would like to replace them with quality components that won't break again in the same manner. He would also like to find out if there are options for a stronger kingpin as he has seen several of those break." You failed to mentioned that your bolts sheared, you did say that you happened to lose a couple of bolts and never mentioned a kingpin, but lets go to the beginning.


"When I call with service questions you never return my call..FOR MONTHS."
RESPONSE-When was this? don't think I've ever spoken to you before.

"When I do get ahold of you, you say "Oh, we moved, we've been busy." Too busy to answer a customer questions For MONTHS?"
RESPONSE- We moved 28 months ago, has your phone not worked since then? I have been with GI since October of 2008 and answer almost every call having over 20 years in retail management and customer service. Thank you for all that have come to my defense and making me aware of this thread.

"When I call with service questions, don't direct me to home depot. If I could find what I was looking for at home depot, then don't you think I would have bought it already? "Ah, well, it's not necessary for all the screws to match" Yes, well, I want them to, and not at the cost of replacing every single one of them from the parts bin at home depot."
RESPONSE- Never did I say the screws didnt have to match, I said that of you were to replace them it is okay if they are not stainless steel depending on your riding conditions, and that it would probably be easier to find the screws with a philips head rather than an allen. I also started the conversation by telling you that I could send you out a set for the cost of shipping, and that they could not be ordered from our website. (probably due to some IT hacker like yourself that has screwed us all up). I said if you do not want to wait for them to be shipped and you need them immediately you can check Home Depot, Lowes or Ace Hardware. The mounting screws are basic hardware.

"When I ask on the same call with website questions, don't tell me "We got hacked 4 months ago, and we cannot get the site fixed." I work in IT, so I know how incredibly boneheaded this statement is. (if you can't do a simple thing like restore from backup, how can I have any confidence you are securely storing my Credit Card number?)"
RESPONSE-Credit Card numbers are done through a secure checkout not our website, being an IT guy you should know that. We are not IT guys or web developers. We ride and do the R&D on our products which we think is more important than our website right now.

So now that you broke your bolts from improper tightening, would you like to pay for shipping? You never answered me on the phone, and instead you run and cry to a form that has bragged about the service. You can call me again and we can work this out or feel free to email me as suggested dave@groundindustries.com

I'm a little late to this argument but I've been riding the same GI board since the spring of 2006. Though components have been replaced (some from Home Depot as it was quicker and easier) and some from a GI dealer, my calls and emails to them have always been asnwered relatively quickly. I am a little disappointed with their website but didn't know they were hacked and as long as they are still making and developping new boards, I will continue to be a fan. Board quality is great. Sorry you had a bad experience.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1 "When I call with service questions you never return my call..FOR MONTHS." RESPONSE-When was this? don't think I've ever spoken to you before.

That would be a true statement, as I've never gotten a call back.

According to my records I've been waiting on warranty information & tech kit since I purchased the board through the 3rd party online shop on 04-07-2008. They were not included with the board. Your company has no record of the transaction. I learned this on my one successful call sometime in 2008, that you guys have zero record of me. Sorry, I do not recall the name of the gentleman who I spoke with, but as he had no record of my purchase, he did not feel that he should be sending me the stuff that was missing. I ended that call dejected, but still happy with my awesome new board.

I have left numerous calls at the customer service number over the past years, I have never received a call back.(Some of these were traced to the fact that the Customer Service #800 listed on the site was incorrect for a time, and I was leaving voice-mails in a black hole.) In fact, I certainly did not expect anyone to actually answer today when I did call.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1 RESPONSE- We moved 28 months ago, has your phone not worked since then? I have been with GI since October of 2008 and answer almost every call having over 20 years in retail management and customer service. Thank you for all that have come to my defense and making me aware of this thread.

Ah, so you've been the person in charge of not returning my call! I understand that we all make mistakes and can get busy, but after a few months of being ignored I gave up on getting my board registered for warranty coverage(& whatever was included in the tech kit. Some sort of wrench, i would imagine.). It's not you, It's me. I just think our relationship is at a stage now where maybe we should be apart. I'll always love your mixtapes, though.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1(probably due to some IT hacker like yourself that has screwed us all up).

Please learn the difference between someone who works in the IT industry and the "hacker kids who like to screw stuff up." I certainly don't call a fireman "one of those kids who plays with matches". Perhaps if you had an IT staff worth something your site would be fully-functioning, and I could have merely overpaid to buy some bolts and stuff from your site instead of bothering you with my call.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1 So now that you broke your bolts from improper tightening, would you like to pay for shipping? You never answered me on the phone

Its great that you're psychic enough to determine that I broke my bolts through over-tightening. That's not what I believe to be the case. I would imagine it had something to do with the kiting&jumping(and the incredibly ugly falls that were repeated, often), but I'm not "tech-psychic" as you appear to be. Yes, I clearly answered you on the phone. I said that if you want me to go to home depot I'll go there. And I ended the call.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1 and instead you run and cry to a forUm(fixed that for you, dave) that has bragged about the service. You can call me again and we can work this out or feel free to email me as suggested dave@groundindustries.com

Yes, a majority of the people here swear up and down by how right you do them, which is why I was so incredibly surprised you didn't seem at all interested in speaking with me.

I had a bad experience with a company, I went to a group of people I trust for their opinion on what product is better and that is "run and cry"?


Just as you can learn the quality of a person by seeing how they treat those who are lower in status then them, you learn a lot about a company by seeing how they handle a user who has problems, not how they handle users who are happy.

I for one am very happy that their online store is down :wee:

manufacturers that sell their own gear online suck support your local retailer :saint:

Edit: this response was suppose to go after B-roc. It was funnier then. I guess EW and I were typing at the same time :P

Thanks Dino...www.dakitez.com


Kiting doesnt break bolts, not checking your hardware does. (if it is too loose the screw snaps, too tight the corner of the baseplate will break)

Again I gave you 4 different options to obtain new mounting screws and nuts for your board, the first being paying for shipping only and have me send them to you. Also I never told you to go to Home Depot, it was a suggestion if you needed the hardware immediately and didn't want to wait for shipping (my mix tapes do rule)

A user with a problem doesn't equal someone who is given solutions and says okay have a good day. I also don't consider you someone who has had a problem with our product. It stinks that you didn't get not only descent, but any customer service in the past, but it was definitely offered today. As far as not returning your phone calls, I can assure you I never received a message from you, as every message I get via email, message board or phone is always returned and handled. Obviously you didn't like the idea of a couple dollars for shipping or this wouldn't have happened.

I'm sorry that I thought you wanted to ride before the weekend and suggested a local resource for hardware. Though you may have represented your case about your past experiences with GI, todays representation was not accurate, and that I take personal. Also I do not know anything about computers or websites, but you are more than welcome to continue digging the embedded code out of ours.

(Do some research on fireman they do play with matches and are usually the first to admit it.)

Sorry Angus and Kent...

www.awindofchange.com

www.coastalwindsports.com

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1 (if it is too loose the screw snaps, too tight the corner of the baseplate will break)

This is the opposite of what you said in your last post, where you accused me of over-tightening my bolts. Whatever they were, a few of them are now broken, so what they were does not concern me terribly.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1 Again I gave you 4 different options to obtain new mounting screws and nuts for your board, the first being paying for shipping only and have me send them to you. Also I never told you to go to Home Depot, it was a suggestion

Buy from you or go to Home Depot is two options, not 4.
I like how you claim you didn't tell me to go to home depot, then admit you suggested it. That's awesome.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1 It stinks that you didn't get not only decent, but any customer service in the past, but it was definitely offered today.

I rather obviously feel that proper customer service was not offered today, due to the fact that this post exists.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1Obviously you didn't like the idea of a couple dollars for shipping or this wouldn't have happened.

I have no problem with paying for shipping,(Hence why I was in the web-store trying to buy bolts, but could not, so I had to call customer service.) But you told me to go to Home Depot, so I took your advice, and went to home depot and stood in the fasteners aisle for 45 minutes poking, and selecting, and discarding. It was a fun time.

Quote:

Originally posted by DirtDave1 Also I do not know anything about computers or websites, but you are more than welcome to continue digging the embedded code out of ours.

I'm sorry, do you work for some other Ground Industries? No? Then you might have to field questions about the GI website. Should probably hit the e-books, then.

If I take your suggestion to "continue digging the embedded code out of yours", I highly doubt you'd honor the bill I send you for the work, based on how stellar our interactions have been so far.

I'm really sorry to understand that you feel this is a personal attack against you, Mr. DirtDave, it's certainly not. Just an unsatisfied customer story. Don't take it personal, it's not meant that way.

Seems like a miscommunication to me. Maybe it was something neither of you could control; maybe Dave really wasn't getting your calls, EW. I don't know why he would ignore you specifically. As far as Home Depot goes... Searching through bolts sucks. I know. :/ But it doesn't sound like he appointed you directly to it. There was a second option. I'm sure that they at GI are doing what they can to get their online store back up and running. Would other, locally owned kite/board shops have the part you're looking for? Also, in the future, I can almost guarantee that you will receive optimum customer service. I'm not swinging either way here; I just think it's silly to argue over some missed calls and the need of a new screw. However frustrating it may be, GI is still a great company, I do not believe they can be discredited because of this one incident, and I'm sure you guys could work something out.

Cheers,
Seanny

okay i said improper tightening, not over tightening, but yet you initially told me you lost them

1) I send you a set for the price of shipping 2) Home Depot 3)Lowes 4)Ace Hardware = 4 options

If you have no problem with paying for shipping why does this thread exist? it seems you heard what you wanted to hear instead of listening to everything I had to say. I would not spend this much time trying to rectify this situation. I do not consider this damage control as much as I consider still trying to help you. We are not a huge corporation, nor is this a huge sport. We are a bunch of riders in a small community and we all seem to be willing to help each other out all of the time.

We are not a web based company, I have no interest e-books, I would rather ride or spend time on message boards or forUms (i note i missed the letter the first time) listening to people to help make our products better and the sports associated with it.

Again sorry I suggested you check out your local resources (especially with MBS in your backyard) and Home Depots customer service must really suck if it took you 45 minutes to find 8 screws and nuts that I gave you the size of. I can still ship the screws today if you wish and since the customer is always right I will not only send them for free but I will send you 2 sets and your "missing tech kit" anything else starting to wear?

This reminds me of a thread last year when a guy had a minor complaint on me that was easily resolved but then everyone jumped in (for which I was grateful) and the whole thing spiraled out of control to the point of silliness. PKF moderators had to jump in and remind us all that this forum is not a customer service desk for any one vendor or shop.

It seems clear that there was some innocent misunderstanding and that now Erratic Winds has several choices available to him to get this resolved and get him riding.

So maybe now is a good time to wind down the thread, or start another one directed purely at truck maintenance in general if need, and otherwise get on with enjoying the holidays. No I'm not a moderator but I'm juss sayin....

Agreed Angus, I have done my best especially with my last offer.

Thank you everyone for the kind words and hopefully EW will let me solve this problem or has the information needed to correct it.

champion dave! way to drop in.

directing to a local source to get the ride ON ASAP. that IS really helping. IMHO.

SEANNY got it right! miscommunication.

noise ...check!

ATTENTION!...right on time!

Man am I late to the party. Dave, you and GI have been nothing but good to me, my riding friends, and everyone I know that has bought from GI. I'm not a dealer, just a guy who rides mountainboards and GI has always gone out of their way to help me out.

It sounds to me like the original post was meant to get people angry, not solve a problem. You don't start out a thread with sarcasm unless you're trying to push some buttons.

I ride GI, I will continue to ride GI and I hope others will call in to see how great their customer service really is.

I asked for opinions on other brands, at no point did I ask for dave's presence or further attempts at customer service.

I'll blame myself for sharing too much of my story when asking for opinions on other brands, guess I should just have kept my unhappiness to myself.

I'm not here asking/begging for free stuff.

I had what I felt was a bad experience and I shared it.

The service-experience continues to be incredibly poor, getting worse with each new post where I get insulted by the man who's supposedly here to help me. If you could stop insulting me for a minute, perhaps I'd consider taking you up on your offer? Is it the 20 years of customer service experience that tells you that's the way to handle an obviously unhappy customer? I can get what I'm asking for if I just have thick skin?


moderators feel free to delete this thread or lock it or whatever.