Are the ice climbing type anchors, such as the Black Diamond brand screws really worth the price they ask. Looking for a really heavy duty ice screw that can take alot of abuse. A few times this season I've anchored my Venom and Synergy to the ice with the cheap type anchors that are used for tying down a portable ice shack. Although they hold really well, both are now bent to the point where they are useless. (Just not strong enough) As of late the lakes here been safe enough to drive around on, so I've been anchoring my arcs to the tow hooks on the front of my truck. Early and late ice is when I need some type of ice anchor that is heavy duty when ice is walk on only. On line is the only way I can purchase the ice climbing type of screws since Wisconsin doesn't have climbing specific stores. Anybody have any experience with these? If so, what length should I be looking at? Thanks.

Weird, I just joined this forum today because I bought a kite, but I am a climber by trade. I can tell you that ice screws for climbing are very strong if the ice is good. They hold fall forces that would far outweigh that of a kite. A tip if you decide to get one, climbing ice screws gain their strength from the threads of the screw, not the shaft. When placing the screw in the ice you would want to screw it in at an angle. The exposed part of the screw should lean downwind with the tip in the ice facing more upwind. Shoot for around 15 degrees off vertical. Seems like a good use of device from another industry. If you get one let me know how it works for you.

Thanks curranl, I'm probably going to buy one to try it out. Having a hard time deciding on a length though. I've seen a couple people on the forum that have used them on their videos and haven't heard of any complaints. I realize the price is high and for good reason, I would want the safest device if I were to rely on this in case of an "oops" while climbing.

Thanks.

they are used all the time for anchoring all kinds of single line kites for kites on ice festivals - and some as you know are huge. Way more power than we get anchoring a power kite. There are always discussions on best anchor techniques and just for interest, one method involves making two converging holes with an ice screw to make a V shaped hole in good ice and running an anchor line though the V.
Longer ice screws are used for large display kites but with a good quality ice screw like the one you mentioned you don't need anything too long for our use otherwise it's more of an inconvenience to carry around. I have a couple of 13cm lengths and longer for single liners but even a 10cm would be fine. But it also depends on the type of ice (hard/soft etc)
Make sure you protect the thread - put it in a protective sleeve before tossing it around with other gear - just to keep it from getting edge damage.

second that, Id go for the 13cm. They make little x-grid sleeves that go over the screw to cover the threads.

Ice screws are practically manditory. They work great and although they are expensive, you get what you pay for. One thing to watch for in using them is when the weather begins to warm somewhat especially with strong sunlight, if they are left in the ice for a long period the sun can warm them enough to melt out the ice around the threads, something to watch out for if you are tethering a kite for a long period.

I'm not sure if this will help in your case but we have discovered they show up pretty cheap at our second hand sport gear stores, if they have any. Seems not many climbers are in to buying second hand gear?

My thinking was I can't see how one could be too long ?

I used to use just sand bags and snow piles because I didn't think screws were worth the price. Bought one two years ago (8 or 9", I can't recall) and it was the best thing I ever did for snowkiting on lakes). For extra convenience, attach a 3-4 foot line to the screw and then a carbiner on the opposite end so you can clip the line to your chicken loop /safety / leash while standing and still have it anchored to your screw.

I gotta get me one of these things.

Sources?

www.rei.com in the U.S. would likely be a good source

They wouldn't really be "too long". Its just the longer it is, the more time you spend screwing it in.

Thanks everyone for your input! Just love the arcs autozenith, get tired and want to take a break, just tether it to a ice screw and it just sits there waiting for you in the sky.
I can see one of these and a dog leash working really well together. :D

In some instances longer can be better. For instance, if the first inch or two of ice is that weak, snow/ice mix crap, then a longer screw gives you more security. I've also learned that that I never fix my rope with the carbiner on it (see my post above) to the handle on the ice screw. I used to do that all the time until I learned from both a kiter and ice climber that the ice screw is designed to support weight on it when the handle is perpendicular to the ice screw (makes sense since the climber would sink the screw and then clip in to support a downward fall). A kiter once told me that he had his kite anchored to the screw on a leash to the handle and the kite powered up, climbed off the ice and then popped the handle off the screw sending his kite flying away (because the handle is not designed to support as much upward pressure). Now I don't know if that was a fluke, defect or cheap screw but since I was told that by a kiter and then told by an ice climber not to anchor the kite directly to the handle, I now larkshead my my rope with carbineer to the ice screw and then sink the screw in the ice so the screw holds the weight of the kite and the handle only anchors the line in place around the screw.

So while I originally thought my 8-9" screw was too long I now think it just right since I loose about an inch or so larks heading the line around it.

FWIW, mine came with only an end cap so I made a sheath for it out of PVC pipe. Took about $2 and 2 minutes to complete.

I have had it all go wrong and the ice screw pull out . I think it was a combination of soft ice + screwing straight in + bad wind + the 10m Charger hunting violently. I think a good screw on hard ice should hold an arc at zenith in most cases. I will hook the safety up to my second screw now that I've learned my lesson.

I always have one screw as a base anchor and a backup for mid ride emergencies.

You have to have the screw set to the hilt. Other wise the screw can fail either the screw can pull out or the screw itself will fail.

Especially if it's a cheap russian Ti screw. They'll work 90% of the time but you get what you pay for.

We made sheaths that mount to our legs and are stitched to our harnesses. Looks like a leg pouch for a clip. Easy access, clean and it also carries a line knife. I run a 6-8" screw because any longer and it might go through to water on some ice and not have the theads to stablize it or allow water to come in around it which weakens the anchor.

Shorter screws may grab into ice fractured by the screw's placement. So it takes the ice with it when it fails.

Sometime screws fail as anchors because as B-Roc stated they're designed to take a load perpendicular to the screw. When a kite powers up quickly it pulls the screw in a direction that it's not designed to support load wise. It can pull out, pull the loop off the end or bend the screw.

But I'd rather have it and than not. They've saved my ass on more than one occasion.

Black Diamond screws are perfect, especially the speed set style. Sometimes you need an anchor in a hurry and that handle really pays off.

I suggest avoiding the Ti screws.

I don't have them yet but I just bought 2 on ebay, much cheaper than other climbing screws. Not sure if they are climbing rated but should work great for kites. Here is the link.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=27069...

Quote:

Originally posted by bigbenmi I don't have them yet but I just bought 2 on ebay, much cheaper than other climbing screws. Not sure if they are climbing rated but should work great for kites.

Not trying to be a jerk but looking at those and comparing them to my black diamond ice screw, there is a huge difference. Screwing that in and out is going to be a pain without a rotating handle and the nicer screws have a lot more and a lot thinner screw teeth (or whatever you call them) which are closely set to each other to quickly cut through the ice.

Not saying its not worth $10 but I don't think its worth more than that. Screwing a dull screw with little bite into the ice is no treat.

Costly as ice screws are, this is one tool where you really get what you pay for.

I have a pile of those Camp screws. You know, they use a tool to install them? It's a ratcheting type tool that's made by Chourinard.

We would use those for bob house anchors and stuuf like that but not for a kite anchor and definately not as a personal back up.

B-Roc is right. Screws are expensive but they do the job better than you can imagine and since you're using them on lake ice you won't likely dull them anytime soon which is what usually is the worst thing about them.

I once had a 16m V2 totally lit off a 8inch BD screw from a freak gust. It blew two lines and the screw didn't even budge/bend/tweak. I wouldn't consider kiting with anything else. The 2 finger speed system makes quick work when you're in a predicament.