Something not right here!



Any suggestions? A guy on an Ozzie kite site ...

tell him to loosen the straps. when i first got my charger and i was still tuning it up, it happend to me a few times. I had mine pulled in all tight. as soon as I tuned it up and loosend all of the straps the tips didn't collapse and stick together anymore. you can see when he started to turn the kite once it spun then collapsed.

been there done that. Mine did same after about 200 hrs or so... as on the daily grind. if you recall

dang dude, that is exactly what happend to me the first day I had my charger. I remember being really frustrated with it because I flew my scorpions with the straps all tight and I couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. you can see in the video that the kite is really responsive to turning, but with all that power it loops and then folds in half. I think since the internal strap is close to the vents, they get pushed into a weird spot when the strap is all tight. I think it doesn't get optimum air pressure and then folds..... I dunno thats what I think I guess

I think my Synergy never did that but I have seen it on my chargers ( and Tarc ) The 15 when not properly filled and the 10 in bad wind.
Go ahead and sell those Synergys before trying Charger Kami' :dunno:
IMHO !

i ran loose straps most of the time rarely touched the straps. after a few 30+ session it started. being a mile or so offshore in 30+ conditions, 6-8ft swell, man what fight. i keep riding despite repeats but after couple hours my nerves were blown out.

So what was your solution, Phree?

... what's the point of straps if you can't tighten them without stalling ... design flaw or what?

Yeah Blade but all the other happy users are erm ... happy I can't notice a difference in the tip straps anyway, but can with the center strap!

hey phree, was that happening on your 15? Also, does it still happen to you? and did you find anything to sort it out?

Too right about my wanting something different out of a kite . Still the 2 are different enough you may want to try one before flipping completely ?
It's all good!

ah lets see,

VENOM

EXA

lads SYN

PHANTOM

thats where i'm at

okay I think It's a combination of things - straps tight but then the setting on the line attachment to the kite is over sheeting when the bar is pulled in. You can see he has the bar in when this happens - yes I think straps tight creates a problem - (more stally in my opinion but haven't had such bad tip collapse) maybe it needs a compensation on the rear line tension - use a knot closer to the kite on the front lines? He says it happens more in lighter winds - higher winds would hold the tips back more, light wind it oversheeting and pulling the tips too far forward and they pass the neutral position and get back winded and tip collapse.

i wouldnt mess with the internal straps too much, factory setting is best, IMO.

this is news to me why this is happening and I've forward the information to head office. wait for my reply.

I talked to chris krug tonight and he said he thinks the straps are too tight

Just had another look at the video and I'll have to think about it a bit more - he has the kite depowered a lot - there is a huge loop hanging from the de-power but the back lines are already tight with the bar out - it shouldn't be that tight unless it's very windy and then i still don't think they would be that straight with that amount of de-power. So any pulling in on the bar is oversheeting - but why do the rear lines look so tight when de-powered that amount?

I definatly think it is pilot error when he set up his kite for those winds. He was crankin when he was riding on the water. He was lit. You are right when noticing how much his clam cleat was depoweres yet his back lines were still tight. Good call markite

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fff6FxgvoY4
its happened to me before (1 min10 on the vid) i put it down to a wet kite full of sand on the top skin.

Quote:

Originally posted by flyjump I definatly think it is pilot error when he set up his kite for those winds. He was crankin when he was riding on the water. He was lit. You are right when noticing how much his clam cleat was depoweres yet his back lines were still tight. Good call markite

Dunno if "pilot error" is the right term ... I've had the 19 Syn out and played with straps at all extremes of straps and combinations thereof but never experienced that - could it be that the Chargers are more highly tweaked already, in their "default" configuration?

It's almost as if it's getting hit at 90 degrees by a gust ... or that the Nav Y-split is pulling the front tips too close together.

I've had the tips clap together on launching but I assumed it was because I had it trimmed in too much on the trimmer ... like he has it.

look at how tight the back lines are. When he sheets in the front lines look to be going a little slack. Enough for the tip that is most in the wind to collapse on itself. On the beach (check his hair for wind direction) it folds that tip first. In motion the tip thats most in the wind. DOes that make sense?

When he sheets out it resolves itself. I think as Carl pointed out it's worse with the wet and the sand. But his rear lines look tight as a tiger.

I'm with Rip, I like my kites set at factory.

pilot error ...if thats the case the unit is too sensitive for use then

original nav.set up= same problem

other bar line set up= same problem

tight/ loose straps, depower trim, full power trim, all of it= same problem.

my very first impression was out of range, ultra gusty winds and too much depower so the balance center falls to TE and collapse occurs, never could reproduce it. used only on land for while and eventually the collapse thing just came to a no fun at all even on land.

i don't know, but i have tried to patiently to find a solution. late window edge hard redirect would make it occur (like a heli loop behind you at the window edge) but not the same as cruising along and it just clams.

the last session i had with i couldnt keep it open for a full minute. so i sent it back(thank you angus) for a designer look.

i will say a rash of collapses would happen then 2 weeks of everything seemed fine no matter what bar i used or conditions. quite frustrating

no crashes, not one, no bow ties, none. spars are true, no seam rupture or pulls

that was end of the summer/fall i think. i think it started in late spring , during one of first spring time beach front rides.

strangest thing the first 200 hours were flawless use

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=13543&p...

Stuck pulleys?

Quote:

Originally posted by Feyd Enough for the tip that is most in the wind to collapse on itself. On the beach (check his hair for wind direction) it folds that tip first. In motion the tip thats most in the wind. DOes that make sense?

On the beach the wind looks to be coming from the right (hair bent to left) but you would have to believe it's really at his back when the kite collapses it drifts to the centre of the wind window. All collapses appear to initiate with the left wing tip every time.

EDIT: the hair is blowing forward and wind swirling around the camera mount and the perspective it just looks like it's going left.

That's also what the hi-6 would do if we could ever get it to inflate and fly - We need a twinskin lab to look at some of these hinky kites -

Quote:

Originally posted by markite Quote: Originally posted by Feyd Enough for the tip that is most in the wind to collapse on itself. On the beach (check his hair for wind direction) it folds that tip first. In motion the tip thats most in the wind. DOes that make sense? On the beach the wind looks to be coming from the right (hair bent to left) but you would have to believe it's really at his back when the kite collapses it drifts to the centre of the wind window. All collapses appear to initiate with the left wing tip every time. That's also what the hi-6 would do if we could ever get it to inflate and fly - We need a twinskin lab to look at some of these hinky kites -

yes i would agree ,i experienced the left wingtip everytime. that really was the only consistent findings esp. seeing this video.
and this i think may contribute to the real problem,
the profile shape(top skin) near the tip seems flatter , older units have a greater degree of profile shape near the wing tip. so the tip has it "own lift" , if it gets flat the apparent wind just pushes it close..how about that for a solution. i noticed this during a wave session where the air bags in the top of the kite and the tips go flat and snaps close, after a deep window loop. tip distortion under load losses lift?

my thoughts on it .

Dang I hope this is a rare occurance, I would hate to be 12 feet in the air and then have tip collapse on my redirect. I don't want to end up with two broken legs

another small point - it always follows a very slight start to a right turn. At the beginning the kite is at the zenith, goes the the left and just as it starts to turn right the left tip collapses. On the water he is doing a gentle sine and as he comes to the bottom and a slight upward (right turn) the left tip folds in.

But is that occuring because of input from the rider or enviroment?

I didn't get a chance to test it today. Maybe tomorrow.

I have had the same thing happen thru the yrs! The brake lines need more pigtail! ....................aj

There's a question - Feyd, you ever experience this? How many hours your reckon you got on your Charger?

by far not as experienced as you guys, but it almost looks like there needs to do a line length check. (too short in the back, kinda like how AJ suggested pigtails) Otherwise I'd just suggest a defect in the kite.

i hear the OZ distributor is handling with the owner

talking with the designer notes:

The Charger will perform optimal with none of the straps pulled in. There will alway's be riders who claim otherwise but everybody has his or her own likings.

the fix is to loosen the straps fully and if the problem concists to contact the dealer or distributor for further details on the problem. (it's hard to see what happens exactly on only a small vid)

@Kami. I flew the 15m Charger almost every day I was out last season. Our Season went from November to May and I put in almost almost 3000 miles that season.

I don't know how many sessions but a lot of hours mostly in punchy inland winds.

I've had sudden wind shifts that look like what this kite is doing but they were clearly wind shifts. Nothing I did on the kite ever caused that sort of result.

the closest thing I've expirienced to that sort of kite behavior was on a 19m V2 that I had to limp back on a broken spar. It would fly like everything was fine but too much bar input and it would go nuts like that 12m Charger.

I looked at the footage again. Markite is right about the left tip collapsing first. However as you watch it frame by frame the rider is also yarding in the left bar end as well. When he sheets in it looks like it could go either way but goes to the side with the bar pulled more.

If the bar was level and rear line pressure equal I would be lean toward a possible issue wit the wing. But between the super tight rear lines and the rider's actions and visable results at the wing I'm still thinking its a set up issue.

I guess We need to know if it's always from the left or just what we see.