I bought a 2nd hand Sting 3.3 and on taking it out the first time spent nearly 2 hours untangling the lines.

Second time I took it out lines were again tangled having used method displayed in the book, took about 20 mins to fix. However for some reason I decided to pack them my own way.

Third time is not a charm - well suffice to say my own method was even worse. Being very miffed to have tangled lines for the third time in a row I spent about 10 minutes trying to sort it before I completely lost patience and just started pulling at it in frustration.

One of my handle and lines is now one big lump of spaghetti. I dont even know how to go about unraveling the mess it is, let alone if I have the patience to spend 3,4,5,6 hours doing it.

What to do? my interest in kiting is being killed before it gets started.

It's important to take the lines off holding the handles in the same way as when you wound the lines up. How are you doing it? Also, you can unwind 1 line at a time to reduce the complication of the tangle. Just start pulling the end through backwards. Every loop you undo, will reduce the tangle.

any other kiters close to you just to meet and give some quick pointers first hand?

time for a new set of lines maybe? try a sock whatch this video youl get what i mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FFVFffvXrQ

If your lines are tangled, remember never start un-doing it at the ends. What you have is a bunch of slip knots inside your lines. Some of these have been fixed by the loops of other slip knots. Start untangling by pulling the free loops out from the loops they are anchoring. As you keep going you will make more free loops. just keep going until they are all free. It should take under an hour.
If you start at the ends you will be tying and untying knots and it will take hours.
As to buying a new set of lines, expect to pay more $60. If you are not experienced with lines, it is likely you will tangle your new ones too.
There is good info on various methods of keeping your lines on this web site.
Have fun with kite.

S

+1 on the loop unlooping. Brilliant! I always take the long road and pull one one at a time. The loop method would be way better for the bulk of the mess.

Don't give up. Learn proper packing technique and you'll never have more than one or two twists. I wrap my lines in a figure eight around the bar or handles. Some here have good luck with parapacking. You'll get it. We've ALL felt what you're feeling I'm sure. You'll be flying Arcs in no time!

(Arcs don't have any bridles to get tangled up)

Thanks for the tips, when I can muster up the patience ill give that method a try.

I think the figure 8 packing is the one in the flexifoil book. Makes sense anyway. When I did that and had it tangled it was twisted rather than tangled so I must have unwound it wrong putting twists in each revolution as I undid it.

I suppose you could detach every line and wind it on its own spindle for 100% guaranteed tangle free, but that would be alot of work and probably considered a copout by most people.

One additional thought. Each individual line might also be quite twisted. If it gets slack at all...like when unwinding, it would tend to make loops and contribute to the tangles. To make sure you have a fresh start, separate and untwist each line separately. The easiest way is to remove the lines from the kite/handles and stake 3 of the 4 lines at one end. Go to the other end and pull the unstaked line free. Take a walk through the grass. Once you are well free and clear, go back to the other end and walk it back. By then most of the twists should be out of that line. Repeat for the other lines and then reattached. From there just be sure to follow one of the proven methods.
Also, heavy stiff lines are MUCH easier to deal with. The light weight and limp ones tend to tangle.
Good luck...don't give up. It will be worth it in the end.

Observations from personal experience:

A tense or anxious pilot is very, very bad for kite lines, it scares them, they react badly.

Don't waste money on new lines when these are just fine ? A bit tangled but, fine, and already cut and sized properly.

Remember, this is setting yourself up for success. Big rewards for those who do a bit of "homework".

Catch a nice, bright day, grab a lawn chair, a beverage, the mp3 player, take a DEEP breath and remember there is no reason to hurry. Try to loosen up the tangles a bit at a time. Once you can see what's going on with the loops and differing line sizes, it will start to make sense why they got bollixed up to begin with.

I've had to walk down every line set I've bought or made at least 4 times, each line by itself, before I got the twists out. If I don't, I get nasty, twisty bits all through the mess everytime.

Once you've got the lines sorted, untwisted and laid out, check them for matched length just to make sure the gremlins haven't been playing.

My pack method works for my fixed bridle stuff. For you, maybe not, try it and see.

I pack from the kite back to the handles. I start with my handles staked, kite parked on the brake lines and the leading edge up. I pack down the kite standing downwind at the center of the skin, gather up the leading edge and walk forward until I've got all the tension off the lines. I gather the "B" bridles together one at a time and then watch my step as I walk to the side and turn my back upwind until I can get the wing tips sorted and bridles policed up inside the gathered skin. I fold the skin as necessary and pack it in my bag / stuff sack with the balance of the bridles still hanging out of the bag. I put the bag under my arm, pull the slack out of the lines back to the stake and wind a figure 8 pattern around a real line winder starting as close to the brake line larks heads as reasonably practical . The important thing is to make sure the lines are pulled snug and even back to the stake before you start winding. Bungee the lines off on the winder so they don't unspool on ya. Stuff the remaining bridle lines on one side of the bag, the winder across the top and the handles down the opposite side of the bag. Mess contained.

When you set up again, stake the handles, walk the lines out slowly guiding them off one turn at a time, unfold the kite and find the leading edge so you don't get brake lines in you face on a reverse launch. Walk the lines back to the handles. Any twists and turns should be obvious and can easily be sorted on the handle end without having to unhook the lines.

It ain't sexy but it works for me... every time.
Then again, I'm just a student... what would I know ?

I am a classic Type-A guy. Tangled lines really bum me out.

Once the cussing is over though, I resign myself to sitting down, slowing down, and taking an almost therapeutic break from the normal pace of life while I untangle lines. Try it.

I offer one more tip. Never let friends and kids pack your kite without your direct supervision. Unless of course, you need a therapeutic break from a stressful life.:singing:

try to fix the knots when your in a calm mood,with a clear head--you'll be amazed how much patience you have--i spent over 10 hours(not all at once)trying to fix the mother of all knots--i never did get it, but it taught me some patience for sure.......

this is a good test for you... don't lose faith Seeing as everyone else has given you good advice already, I will just add that this is a great time to start practicing certain habits that could end up saving your skin and life down the road.

The harder the wind is blowing, the slower you move. Everyone gets excited when the wind blows, but if you force yourself to be deliberate and take extra time doing what you need to do, then you are more likely to pick up on potential equipment failures before they happen.

As far as lines, it never hurts to just pull them out when it's not windy and just wind and unwind and wind and unwind and untangle and fix all of it. Pretty sure I have a line set that a kid packed away for me that i have been working on for a few days now. Great thing to do while there is no wind and I have nothing else to do, i clean up the messes lol

Dont lose the stoke!!! Flying is worth it!!!

Often it looks like you have tangled lines and don't. If you rolled and unrolled proper then getting the kite into shape and then working the handles usually does amazing things. Then you end up with just 1 or 2 twist to unflop.

Don't get discouraged. Line management gets easier with time.

First rule of untangling lines....do NOT pull anything tight!!!

It also takes 10 times longer to try and fish one line out of the mess. Your best bet is to sit down in front of the TV and start to untangle from there. Start in the center of the rats nest. Slowly massage the lines apart making larger and larger loops. From there, take any areas that are tightening up and massage those areas out so they are loose. As you massage the rats nest apart, you will find that the knots and tangles are just loops of line inter-looped around each other and the more you massage, the more the tangled mess will automatically dissolve. As you get longer and longer lengths of line out of the rats nest, run those out on the ground away from you to keep them from re-tangling with the mess. Before long you will find that you can wind up 20-30 feet and then start again. After an hour or so your lines will be all straightened out again.

For setting up your lines. If you are not using a kite stake, you need to get one! It can be anything such as a screwdriver, piece of rebar, tire iron, etc.... just something you can stab into the ground to loop the handles over. This will keep your lines tight as you unwrap them. As you unwrap, do not let them fall on the ground on top of themselves or you will end up with another rats nest. Instead, walk downwind as you unwrap, keeping the lines semi-taught as you go. This way you will have nearly zero tangles as you unwrap.

One of the biggest errors new pilots make is that you try to untwist the lines as soon as you get them laid out. What happens is that the front half of the lines may be twisted clockwise, while the back half of the lines are twisted counter-clockwise. All you need to do is to pull the lines tight against your kite stake and the two types of twists will cancel themselves out and you will find that you only have one or two twists left. If on handles, you may need to put one handle through the other, then flip once or twice and your ready. With a bar you may need to flip the bar inside itself or spin it once or twice, but it still should be very easy to do.

Another hint if you are not already doing so, do NOT disconnect your lines/handles/bar when you pack up. Just keep everything hooked up. If all your lines are connected right and straight when you pack up, they will be right and straight when you unpack.

Another error that newbies make is that when you are winding up your lines. If you wind from the kite to your handles, what newbies will do is just yank the handles off the stake or ground and then wind up to them. What this does is allow the handles to spin and flip around/inside/upside down etc... Always wind right down to your handles, making sure they do not flip around and stay straight. Doing this will assure that you have nearly zero twists when you unpack the next time.

Don't give up. Once you find a system that works for you all of these problems will cease and your kite flying time will be spend with more air time and very few tangles.

Hope this helps.