So I have been lucky enough to finally try out a few closed cells and I am in love but I am very curious about the power difference between the two style kites.

For instance, picked up a 12m Charger and a 10m VII and I love them but I am not sure how they measure up against the power supplied by our Frenzys. I had read the 12 Charger was approx to a 7.5 Frenzy but I question the validity of that one. Wondering what the 10 V2 would be equal to???

Then, when talking Flysurfer, I had heard my 12m S3 would be equal to like a 15 Manta's power, that really got me thinking about which kites to hold on to and which to sell to get the most days out of the year.

I, like everyone else here, want to be able to fly SAFELY (or as safe as safe can be) across the wind ranges up to say, 25-30mph-ish so stability, insane depower, ease of safety release (and recovery) and less superman-ing are the most desired characteristics for this 135 lb frame.

Basically, thinking of going all closed cell but only if it fits and makes sense. Lord knows I don't need all the kites I have so it's time to start recouping some $$$ies and if I need to sell a few to buy one more, then so be it.

FS Unity? 6-8m Charger? Trade the 12 Charger for a 15 since the V2 10m is close? Or is it because of the new vs. old tech?

Either way, not likely to sell the FS or the 10m V2 - dems my favorite so far.

Go ahead, just call me a :piggy:

I don't think It's a question about open/closed cell as much as style of kite and aspect ratio
The shape of the Speed makes more power size for size over the Manta and the Arcs way less

I take my 10m Venom out in winds that would of killed me on my 3m FF Blade
I can surf in 8 knots with my 15m Speed.. My 15m Synergy needed to have at least 13 knots

If I was 135lbs I with your quiver I would go for 8, 10, 13m Venom2's and the 12mSpeed for light wind..
Sell the rest and put $2500 in the bank..

the CH 12 and VII 10M are very close in power output. the CH12 being faster.

they're very similiar. the 10 def more stable and strong auto zenith.

the bridal depower kite will have more power/ area .

closed cell / open cell really an application thing here. open cell dedicated LAND units, closed cell for water apps. either one can be used for whatever but thats the basics. closed cell HOLD the air tight so the rate of power build up is quicker.

get CH 15 , keep the VII 10m, drop the ch 12 ...the 15CH will be a fraction more forgiving with careless input but it is quite fast for its size.

the CH 15 will feel very close in power to the FS12 S3, CH will turn faster.

Dave and Phree are right. There's a lot of overlap in the line up and the questions goes deeper than "Open/Closed cell".

You have to look at Aspect Ratio, Size and Projected Area.

A Bridled kite and an Arc, even if the same square meter and the same aspect ratio, can have different power based on the projected area.

I'm more interested in the AR and PA than size. Those elements make a huge difference in what the kite does. More so than the square meter IMO.

Ex: My 16m F-Arc (AR 7) pulls as hard or harder and goes faster than my 19m Charger (AR 4.9) The F-Arc has better up wind as well. Very High AR. But the F has extremely limited depow compared to a modern kite and turn rate isn't even close to the CH19m.

Speed 3 has an AR of 6 (I think) where a Manta is around a 4.5. So the Speed/Manta comparison seems reasonable to me. I've not flown a M3 against the S3 so I can't speak from expirience.

Can't go worng with a 15m Charger. That kite will do damn near anything.

Thanks guys. I should have elaborated that I am aware of more than just open vs. closed and how the kites differ in size and AR and such.

I was really leaning more towards closed celled as they tend to stay up in the lulls better and don't seem to drift back into the power as inadvertently as their open celled cousins and then power up in a split second... Plus, the man and me are thinking we may like to try water should we go on vacation somewhere kite boarding friendly and take lessons.

I suppose a better question would have been if I sell my 4 Access and 7 Frenzy, what would I be looking at for a FS or PL to take their place in higher winds? AND because the 12 Charger is close to the 10 v2 does it make sense to trade up even when the FS S3 would most likely cover that wind range (but prob do better in lighter stuff).

The 9m Frenzy is Anderson's and he feels bad parting with it because I gave it to him for Christmas but he likes the PLs too so well see... Shared quiver issues abound!

Brand Loyalty was so much simpler when you only tried a couple different kites wasn't it. :bigok:

You said it Shaggs... Our quivers look oddly similar! Actually, all our gear does.

But I digress...

12m frenzy is perfect in 10-15--a little intimidating in 20, and i havent tried it in 25, but i know people that have......awesome power!!

I think i might be selling my 13m scorpion if you are interested, it has a very high AR just like the F-arc Feyd was mentioning and pulls like a truck. I just am not using it as much as I wish I was.

When I weigh open cell vs. closed this is what comes to mind..

1) Open cells can basically be unpacked, thrown out and launched. Closed cells, even FS require a certain amount of internal pressure to fly. We have a quiver of kites comprised mostly of Apex 2's and Rangers for times when we're in a hurry to get a session and too lazy to get air into a closed cell.

That said our efficiency with getting a closed cell in the air has gotten to the point that we didn't fly any of our open cells last season. So we're thinking about getting rid of all the open cells.

2) With the Peter Lynn Arcs there's no bridle. Where we live it makes a huge difference because we're usually in gusty conditions and the bridled kites beat us up more. Especially the FS's. The FS riders I know say the Speed 3 is better at gust absorbing than the early FS's but still not near as smooth as an Arc. (Okay I know I compared closed cell to closed cell.) I firmly believe that an small Arc is the best choice for high winds.

3) Closed cells rarely expirience "Air Bricks". You know when you're cruising along, hit a pocket of air and the kite immediately folds in half like someone threw a brick at it and then proceeds to fall out of the sky.

4) Open cells are a lot easier to repair skin wise. With a closed cell you sometimes have to dissasemble stitching to get into the part of the kite that needs the repair.

5) Open cells will usually fly with a cell damaged as long as the bridle is intack. An Arc, if the cell is blown and there is a hole, will likely not fly. I've never blown a cell on a FS but I have flown Molly's 19m P4 SA with the zipper wide open and it flew amazingly well. The bridle pays off there.

6) Closed cells are more versitile. Water, snow, land.

I don't know if that helps or muddy's the waters.

A 13m Scorp would be a nice kite. AR 5.5, fast turning, Zippy, big power range, PA of about 10m I think. Like a Phantom but turny.