Flying static I have no issue doing either an upturn or a downturn but when I am in the buggy and flying "off a shoulder" the downturn is mystifying me.
Scenario:
On a Port tack [kite to the riders left] in a park and ride pass with the kite ~3' off the ground and it comes time to turn around and go the other direction.
For an upturn pull in the port lines/ let out the STBD lines, the kite turns around its left end with no line crossings while the rider turns left underneath it and transitions from the left shoulder to the right.

How do I execute the same ground turn with a downturn of the kite? Obviously I need to start with more ground clearance ;-) but then what?

On a possibly related note I keep having the situation where I feel I have stalled the kite at the end of tacking pass and can not turn it around to go the other direction. What am I doing wrong?

cheers
John

It's basically the same turn except you'll need to take the kite to whatever height is necessary for clearance. And you'll end up with crossed lines which you can either un-cross when you do your next downturn at the other end of your run or if the wind allows you can loop it back the other way to uncross - sometimes I find I have to head a little towards the kite when I do this to make sure it doesn't get behind me.

Excellent in light winds because you're using gravity to force air into the kite and get it flying where as an upturn may stall it in light conditions. Keep in mind, kite will be heading low into the power zone so you'll get some zoom.

Here's a silly vid I made of messing around on my small farm - at 1.59 and 4.50 is a down turn followed by a loop to uncross. A lot of fun, just don't let that kite get behind you :shocked2:

Edit: I usually don't try this if there's a lot of power in the kite because, quite frankly, I'm not all that skilled. And taking the kite high before the downturn helps reduce the speed too - I wouldn't try it at full speed.

thanks John, I guess I was under the delusion that I could do it without crossing the lines.

Of course the mechanism gets more complicated when executed with handles rather than a bar :singing:

I think that the need for more apparent wind at the turn was probably a fair chunk of my problem.

Yea the "ripped out the back of the buggy" effect is a lot of fun, I have the grass rash today to prove it

It's a good question - many times I've watched people learning to fly with a foil (often for kiteboarding now) and see the kite get to the edge of the window and slow down or stop and they are trying to do an upturn but the kite ends up falling. For some reason many do not realize they can do a downturn and even with a stalled kite gravity will do the trick to be able to initiate a turn down and back into the wind window rather than watching the kite fall to the ground in light wind.

You are correct Markite. Unfortunately for me I have the [bad?] habit of flying 1/4 to 1/2 kite width of the ground
Bummer I guess that I HAVE to go fly a kite :singing:

agree, it's exactly the same thing, you just need to start with you kite higher. the "typical" rule of thumb is to keep you kite 1/4 turn ahead of you which means where you are starting your down loop, don't turn yet. You need to wait to start your turn until your kite is just starting to turn in the other direction. This is what you need to master day #1. If you also have a kite with good breaks then you can also spin the kite in a downloop direction with out losing any height. You won't get the pull from the loop but you'll get a complete pull across the window.

Personally I love doing down turns low and letting my kite literally get the entire turn ahead of me then having it pretty much turn the buggy for me 180. Quite fun. But that's for day #3.

Day #2, I'd work on down loop while traveling in one direction followed by a downloop while traveling in the other direction. This will untwist your lines after 2 tacks. Once you feel comfortable with that; what I enjoy doing when I am flying underpowered is to work the kite through the turn. Going in your initial direction, do your down loop, but let the kite get quite a ahead of you in the turn, probably at least 1/2 the turn. Then once you are 1/2 way-ish through your turn do a down loop in what would be your new direction. But unlike during your first turn where it was really a 1/2 loop in the downward direction, you are going to fully loop your kite and continue in the new direction. You will be pulled thru the first part of your turn and then well powered coming out of the turn and in the new direction, this will also untwist your lines. The closer you do the loop to down wind the more acceleration you will have and the more you will be able to have your kite ride across the window out of the turn. Depending on your buggy, you may get enough power on the loop that you may need to first steer your buggy into the loop rather than fully in the new direction. Once the loop is complete then just hedge up wind with the kite as it shoots across the window. Similar to what Jon did in his video. Ideally the turn should feel smooth and the kite should always be moving up or down never parked until you exit the turn. Tricky but sure to be fun times!!


http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5262/5700949190_d008606bf4.jp...


Hard to get the timing from this, you just need to try it out. the top is the view of the kite over your shoulder and the bottom is the approximate position of the buggy through the turn.

Lots of variations on the theme from here... the backloop to downloop, which is a good one for those who like to be on the border of oobe or adding extra loops before and after the above. Good time

Thanks for the advise folks. I got out today [3m Hornet with a little 5m at the end] and got some good practice at both up -turns and down -turns.
The only thing that I was not able to consistently do was "unwind" mid -pass.
Too many other things going on during the pass [ah the joys of flying on a postage stamp :singing::wee:]
I did achieve a first, flying back to where I started :wee::wee: as opposed to the usual run out of field and walk back to base [did that several times today as well :P]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cerebite ... I did achieve a first, flying back to where I started...

Excellent! That can be hard as a beginner. A small field only makes matters worse. It's so much easier to learn when you have room to get up to speed, slow down, jibe, and recover the ground that you lost in the jibe.

Philip

Getting back to where you started is a big first step! Keep it up :bigok: