I was curious to see the difference in the bars side by side. I thought others might as well so I snapped a picture to share.

On the left (upside down) is the HQ montana 9.5m / in the middle is the Ozone / and on the right is the HQ apex III 7.5m bar.

The main thing I wanted to see was the difference in the throw of the bar (to the stopper ball) and the length from the bar to the parking strap. As you can see from the pictures the HQ bars have a very long throw compared to the Ozone and a long reach to the brake strap. I have not had a chance to fly the montana or ozone bars, but I have flown the apex bar. While flying the apex if I let the bar go the stopper was so far away that I was unable to easily reach out and grab the bar. After measuring the montana it is even 1" longer than the apex. So this might present a problem for me. I guess I need long BB gorilla arms to fly these

The measurements from the stopper ball to the inside of the bar are .... Ozone 10.5" / Apex 14" / Montana 15". The HQ landing straps are an extra 6" longer than the Ozone.

Have any of you other pilots out there having trouble reaching the bar on the montana 6 and apex 3? I have talked to other pilots that have flown the apex 3 and they all had the same issue. There was one exception who had no problem reaching but he is 6'6" (or taller?) and calls himself The Beaver

I am thinking if this is a common problem than we may need to figure a good way to mod the bar setup to be shorty friendly

I have trouble reaching a depowered bar on regular throw kite - and I don't think I'm a midget :o not a huge fan ... I reset all my Flysurfer bars to the factory 40cm and IMHO it is better - the kite doesn't overfly and luff so much when I let the bar go.

Think the only way you could get around short throw at the bar would be pulleys, which were so successful they disappeared from the bar and ended up on the bridle the other option I've been considering is a Naish Universal system, modded - set it up with a lo-ooong max depower throw and a stopper ball and below the bar trim. Not suitable for foil though I think cos the safety wouldn't work off the trim line ...

Kami I do not think I will have a problem with the Ozone, but we will see when I get out and fly it.

The thing I am going to mod first on the HQ bars is the chicken loop. From the bar to the tip of the chickenloop measures 8" and I am sure it extends to about 8.5" or more when the kite is under load because its no longer a loop but more of a v. I do not see a reason this need to be so long. I figure I can shave off at least 4" and still have a perfectly operational chickenloop. This way all the bar controls will 4" closer to me without making any modifications to the de-power performance of the kite. That 4" will most likely be enough to put the bar within reach when it is completely let out to the stopper ball.

I guess this is why Ricardo doesn't fly depower .... can't reach the bar when you only have baby length arms :P

I am 6'0 and I fly on a Zero 7 bar. I know it has quite a lot of throw... I can reach the bar when it's fully depowered, but I have trouble reaching the trim strap for sure, especially when it's let out most of the way.

someone was bored that day.

you need to get out and ride more. 6 months to WBB you better be ready to roll. Cool and I are booking flights and hotel NOW.

Being that I didn't initially get an Apex 3 bar with my kite, I got real used to fling the Apex 3 7.5m on a Apex 2 bar, when I finally got the new bar I tried it to find I really didn't like the way the kite flew, so I started comparing the two bars to find out why.

I noted that the Apex III has @ 3.5" longer throw than the Apex II, so I've moved the stop down @ 3" to compensate for this as the brake line and "top hat" safeties were a bit far away for my short arms, at the same time the steering line leaders were 1.5" longer than the II so I put an extra knot at the bar end of the (Apex 3) lines (which are glued in) this took up around .75" of this which improved the turning speed of the kite quite noticeably.

I did employ the Naish stopper to shorten the throw, which entailed disassembling the trim line from the safety line, removing the o-ring, sliding it over the trim line and then the stopper ball over the o-ring, this kind of make the ball stationary (the o-ring is inside the upper end of the orig. stopper ball toward the new Naish stopper in the photo), I then whipped the two lines together above the new stopper as seen in the photo to keep it all in place.

Now this mod makes the stopper non-adjustable and takes 3" of throw out of the bar, but I find it flys much better (more like the Apex 2 bar) and I never found a use for the extra depower anyways, though the kite is slightly more powered when fully out, not a big deal to me. In measuring (for Dino) the inside of the bar to the stop is now 10". If I wanted more depower I could just remove the upper whipping and I would have @ another inch.

Lastly the way they finished the splice in the trim line (which was poorly) made it stick at the bar insert when I wanted (or needed) to pull in the bar to apply power, so I whipped this part with waxed sail twine and it seems to work fine now, again as seen in the included pic.

The trim strap on my Apex II's I find is a little too far away. I removed the chicken loop and replaced it with a quick release shackle which improved things greatly. Although then, I started knocking the bar on the buggy 'cos it was too close!

Don't think I've had any problem with the Ozone bars which are a much nicer unit - but you pay for that.

Someone must want the bar further away - you can buy an extra big chicken loop for the Ozone ...

It seems that maybe HQ designers wanted to add in some extra depower and did it by adding throw to the bar. It seems odd that someone of my size would be the smallest guy to get along with the bar ok.

I have the Montana 9.5, actually BeamerBob's old Montana, and if I let go of the bar I needed to bend over to grab it again. Trimming on the fly is not an easy task as well. I found that the Ozone base harness helped a lot. The chicken loop plugs right in at my waist, well more so the hip area instead of at my belly button with a bar. It also takes away an inch or two because it's not in a hook. While it's still a reach for my short arms, that extra 3-4 inches makes a big difference just by changing up the harness. I also find that I trim the kite for "more power" and fly with the bar a lot closer to my body and don't really use the top couple inches of throw.