I'm trying to convert a Naish carbon bar to use with my New Tech Burner 3.6 First attempt I took the lead edge harness lines and hooked them to the outsides of the bar, and the brake lines to the chiken loop/depower setup. During the lulls, the depower setup weighed just enough to keep activating the brake lines a little. Perhaps i I removed the strap adjustment, and simply put a ring on each end... enough to pull on if I need to activate the brake lines, and hook up a leash to it if I wanted.

That make senes? Anyone else try to use one of their kitesurfing bars on a traction kite? I keep thinking of trying a mountain board with a kite, and for me.. a bar would allow me to keep my balance better.

If I get into landboarding, I know I'll need a bigger kite... but the 3.6 seems to have more than enough power for a beginner.

Im sure I would attach the power bridles to the center chickenloop line, and the brakes to the bar. Most kites will steer on the brakes.

Scoop

Scoopy -

Putting the front lines of a fixed bridle kite on the depower strap/chicken loop and the brake lines on the bar ends is gonna have you braking every time you pull in the bar, right?

Or are you thinking to set the system up to have brakes off with the bar out at a "comfortable" position, steering with the brakes, and then pull the bar fully into the chicken loop for full brakes?

The simple Flexifoil bars work as Taper123 is thinking - they have the brake lines joined to a center line that passes through the bar to a wrist cuff. Seems pretty rinky-dink to me, though. Maybe ditch the depower strap and just keep the chicken loop - that way the weight of the depower strap won't pull on the brake lines.

Chris Krumm

Yes, pulling the bar will activate the brakes. You cannot "depower" a kite just by putting it on a de-power bar. You will steer the kite with the brakes. You should not be pulling the brakes in unless you want to land/stall the kite. It also would depend on the kite. ALL kites will turn on the brakes, not all kites will turn on power lines only. The Bego from Macpara is a very brake-dependent turning kite. The Blades/Bullets from Flexifoil fly very well on 2 line power bridles. You can take the brake bridle off a blade and fly it on 2 line only. (why anyone would do this is beyond me) I guess you will have to do some tweaking and find out what works best. One good thing is that you have a clam cleat type of adjustment so you can balance the brakes/power lines. Try it both ways. I dont know enough about this kite to tell you for sure.

Scoop

ps- Taper, for a mountainboard, I believe Ground Industries has come out with a skate truck this year that still has the 12mm axles (heavy duty). Im almost positive it sells for less than $200.00 Would be a great trial board. Cheap enough to try and if you dont like it, your not out a lot. Let me know if your interested, Ill do some more serious checking with my distributor about it.

Scoop -

The concern I have with setting up brakes to the bar ends and front lines to the chicken loop is you are fully braked with bar pulled in, but if you let bar go you are fully powered up and need to rely on releasing the chicken loop (with a quick release) to get clear of the kite. One could say you should always be in control of your kite, but the aforementioned condition sounds unsafe to me.

So, for a fixed bridle kite on a bar, how about this:
1) brakelines to bar ends

2) run a leader from the brakeline-to-bridle leader knot through a single pulley which is attached to front line bridle leader, and then around to connect to the end of the front line. Do this for both sides and then front lines join at the depower strap, above the bar. Now you have steering from the brakes with proportional steering from the front lines too. Its kind of like the Peter Line C-quad bar setup using a 3-line bar set-up.

3) Use de-power strap to tune kite to keep brakes slack with bar at your preferred "full power" position.

4) chicken loop with a Wichard QR shackle quick release or something like the Chicken Release (http://www.embado.com/kitesurfkit/chickenrelease/features.ht...) is hooked to your harness spreader, allowing full braking with bar pulled in close.

5) A leader from the chicken loop QR pin or Wichard shackle to an eyestrap at the center of the bar set at alength such that when the bar is released or pushed out BEYOND your "full power position," the chicken loop is released from your harness. The kite now goes fully braked. THE RISK HERE is making sure the brakelines have enough pull to pull the quick release if you've let go of the bar and not actually pushed the bar out.

6) The kite and bar are now free of the kiter, so a tether from one brake leader to the kiter (harness or wrist strap) might be recommended.

Whadya think?

Krumly, every other depower on the market is attached with a chicken loop. You have to pull a safety to get out of the kite. Your talking about being worried that this is not safe, lets look at a blade on a bar.

1-full power all the time.

2-you have to pull a safety.

3-When you hook in, you either have to unhook or pull a safety to get away from the kite.

Most modern kites (depower) pull the lines that are on the steering bar when you pull the safety.

I cant see how this is losing control of your kite, or any more dangerous than any other kite. Im not trying to argue, just trying to bring all valid points.

Scoop

What are you trying to do? If you are trying to make the burner depower, it won't work. Depower is in the bridle system and has nothing to do with the brakes. Moving the bar changes the AOA of the wing which changes the amount of power.

If you put the brake lines on the outside and use ONLY brake to steer, it will steer like a truck.

If all you want to do is use the Naish depower bar because thats all you have and don't want to buy another bar, fix the bar so it does not move in and out anymore and rig it as you would on a fixed power bar. Of course, you'll have to play around with line legths to them just right. The setup won't be as simple as just buying a bar made for the kite...If one is available.

Quote:

Originally posted by rrc62 If all you want to do is use the Naish depower bar because thats all you have and don't want to buy another bar, fix the bar so it does not move in and out anymore and rig it as you would on a fixed power bar. Of course, you'll have to play around with line legths to them just right. The setup won't be as simple as just buying a bar made for the kite...If one is available.

I was just playing around in the field one day. I'm using the handles that came with the kite, and it's working fine that way. Looks like a quad line kite like this one can be used in a two line mode with the bar, just hook the brake lines together with and attatch a safety leash to them if I decide to just dump it. I just did'nt have any extra line with me that day to make fix it up right. The handles that came with the kite work great though...just looking for options.

Scoop -

I'm not trying to argue either, rather was just stating a safety concern and possible means of addressing it while getting decent steering on a bar.

It's all fine to say be in control of your kite at all times, but S$#@ happens, and I for one think it would be safest if you dropped the bar, the kite would FIRST brake or depower, AFTER which you could pull a QR on the chicken loop or a shackle to cut loose from the harness, and lastly, release any kind of retrieval tether. What I suggested would release you from the kite, after which the kite would brake- not ideal, but maybe acceptable since we were talking fixed bridle and brakeline steering.

rrc62 is right about variable angle of attack depower, and depower kites like the Frenzy will depower and luff when the bar is let out (afterand I believe the Frenzy comes with a QR chicken loop and no fixed harness loop as well).

I'm looking at rerigging my Concept Air Traction Wave to see how it performs with variable angle of attack depower. Maybe it'll stink, but I want to try it. Check out:

http://www.powerkite.me.uk/

http://www.paraflysurf.ch/uds-ii.htm

http://www.pegaskites.com/wingwarp.asp (claims to have "tamed the beast" on big Blade III's with their mods).

And Scoop, only marginally related, but have you flown one of the big Revolution Powerblast 2-4's or 4-8's? I have their Supersonic, which I I've just gotten dialed in on, and it is the quickest, most controllable, power on-off kite I've ever flown.

Taper 123 - flying a traction kite set up as a 2-liner may be be the way it was done 10 years ago, but having brakes instead of just dumping the kite is a real good thing. Call me chicken...

Chris Krumm

Chris, all good valid points. I guess what it really comes down to is that fixed power is really better of on handles, and de-power on bars. If you want to fly a bar on a fixed bridle, use a 2 line bar with a crossover type kite that you could get with the blade 2s. (The sabre also has the cross bridle)

As for the power revs.. never had a chance to fly one. Im not real sure I want power on/off, I kinda like the de-power more than all or nothing. Especially if your out in some serious wind. Going from nothing, to enough to hurt you in a nano second doesnt sound too much fun, but I could be wrong. I believe the cory-llama has flown some of these.

Scoop

I got my 3.5 m Concept Air Freestyle set up on a 3-line bar yesterday, and tried testing it 2 ways. Barely enough wind to keep it in the air, much less give me enough pull to come to conclusions. But here's what I've observed so far:

Front lines to bar ends and brakes joined above bar at depower strap:

In light winds, the added weight of the depower strap and other junk drags on the brakes a bit - just as Taper123 observed. The kite steers like crap on the front lines alone. Takes a little getting used to letting out bar to put on the brakes (counterintuitive when you're used to handles).

Rear lines to bar ends and front lines joined above depower strap:

With a kite this small, and in lighter winds, not having the kite brake if bar were dropped may not matter - despite all my concerns with safety, I've never dropped a kite on handles (yet). Pulling in bar to brake feels intuitive to someone used to handles. Kite still steers like crap.

I've noticed this particular kite seems to steer best with a mix of pulling in the entire handle (like a 2-line kite) and a little brake, so I think I need to put a pulley above the depower strap and try the leader from strap, around pulley, to bar end, with lines that would connect to depower strap tied off at pulley eye. Do this both sides and try it all again, to see whether it works best steering on front lines with 50% brakes mixed in, or vice versa.

Scoop - do I presume the crossover you refer to in the Blade II or Sabre is in the bridle primaries only, or is this some other kind of crossover/mixing scheme in flying lines or bar set-up? Thanks,

Chris Krumm