So its really looking official, that I'm staying home this summer. As such I'm snooping around for new gear to aid me on the water. I'm not sold on anything for sure just yet, as the endless options really don't help the decision making. ATM I have it narrowed down to a 12m Unity, or possibly (cringe a bit) a LEI. I e-mailed Flysurfer Canada asking if there would be opportunity to test the unity, but after a week they failed to reply. I called a distributor in the city, and they said that maybe in a month or so, but for now any stock is reserved. Seeing my friends success with his Naish Cult, I'm looking at the 2011 Bolt, the sigma series seem to handle our shifty gusty crap winds quite well. Without being biased one way or the other (definitely not trying to start a war here) can some of the more experienced riders here, explain what might make either type (LEI and Closed Cell) more suitable for a beginner who's just entering the water. I don't know enough about the other types of LEI to understand what would make a good beginner kite in my inland gusty conditions.

i am actually selling the first kite i was able to surf with... i tried flysurfers first, but i think maybe they were more than i could handle... anyway... im thinking of getting back into a larger FS, but at the moment i need to trim my quiver...

so, i am selling my venom II 19m RTF for $425 shipped...

... very beginner friendly and can handle weird winds all day long

I've flown both lei's and foils on the water, they each have their pros and cons...tubes are faster in the window, foils work well in light winds etc..personally I'd spring on some tube kites, your learning curve will decrease and your deltoids will be massive from all that pumping!

As far as style of tubes definitely go for a bow or sle, they are user friendly have a big range and plenty of depower for your gusty conditions. The flexifoil proton and ion are sweet kites and I've loved every sesh on my flexi gear. Good luck!!

I've been flying PL's and LEI's for over 10 years. IMO PL's tend to be more stable in the air and easier to self launch / land. LEI's, on the other hand, typically cost less, have better overall performance and turning speed. I think as a beginner kite, either would be fine.

What do you weigh and what wind speeds will you be kiting in? The Venom II 19 (I have a Venom 19 also for sale) is roughly the equivalent to a 16m LEI's top end and 13m low end. For my weight (230 lbs) I can fly mine in 18 to 30 mph, where as I can fly my 16m Bularoo LEI in 15 to 25 mph (gusts to 30). Good, forgiving kites.

I've owned a number of Flysurfers and just didn't like them. First was a Titan 15.5 and the second was a Speed 2 19. Both seemed finicky and didn't handle gusty winds well. I'm always tempted to give them another try, but as you've found, they are pretty hard to get a demo on. Definitely don't buy one unless you've tried it first. Just my opinion.

Shaggs,

A Pulse/Pulse2 or LEI for inland gusties.......................Slingshot Rev/Rev 2, RPM, Flexi Ion, Wainmans, North Rebel all good choices...............always nice to try before you buy but if you cant the LEIs mentioned are nice........................12 and 9m should cover you easliy.............................

IMHO you want a bow (LEI/SLE) type kite ... lots of power, a heap of depower and so easy to fly you can just park it and get on with the learning.
Unless you're real familiar with the arcs - then I'd go for the V2 too ...

My Speed2 hates gusts but after being tuned by John at powerzonekitesports, is uber-stable. So instead of collapsing and tangling, it just collapses

The North Evo was also on my mind....would that be a suitable kite for a beginner?????

Yep ... I think it's the 4-line version of the Rebel, is it not?

if i you want tubes

my list would be Wainman, F-One, Cabrinha

I struggled with foils and twin-skins on the water for a couple of years. The issues were performance (power?), staying upwind, turning speed, and re-launch to name a few. The final straw was when I was kiting with some friends, one of which was a beginner. I was spouting off about not needing to pump yada, yada, yada, and the beginner, who is heavier than me, goes to the water and is up and gone. I fight with my kite trying to get up between the wind and adverse current until it hit the water. With the current coming at me, relaunch was not going to happen. I swam out with a mass of soaked, tangled ripstop, embarrassed and chagrined.

That very day i went home and listed a few kites and re-invested in the same LEI's my friends were using.

Power - not an issue. Full de-power - not an issue. Turning speed - not an issue. Upwind ability - not an issue. Re-launch - not an issue. What is left is simply having fun on the water for a change. No more frustration.

Will I go back to using foils/twinskins on the water? I'm sure that at some point I will. But for learning - I'm sold on the LEI.

Wainman a very good choice - jack-of-all-trades!

My Speed2 is the only thing flying and me riding on light wind days ...! The right tool for the job but sometimes, I just wanna ride my arcs :D

I'm right behind you shaggs. That T3 in Florida was so effortless in all aspects that I'm looking for a 12m LEI to continue my learning with. I'll go to the foils once I've got three board skills down.

OR Rise 9 and 12 are great! Long throw bar helps with the gusts. +1 for LEI and beginning on the water.

North Fuse is the 4 line version of the Rebel. I flew both and liked the Rebel better. I was looking at Rebel or Rise and got a good deal on the Rise so went that route. North bars are great. I just setup one on my Pulse that allows the 5th and front lines to get untangled.

hehehe....just came back to check in and saw my typo. I might wait until I have six or seven skills before going back to the foils

Thanks AD
Flew a Rebel 14 in Thailand, but the wind was super light so I only remember the frustration of being unable to ride - unlike the guys on the Speed3 19's!
When you can ride, make sure you put some energy into learning to control over-powered riding with the board, and not relying on mountains of depower ... very good skill. Props to progression.me (Fatsands) for tips on their YouTube channel ...

I need to get the very basic skills down What are the differences between the rebel and evo????? Would one be better than the other in gusty, shifty conditions????? After watching the 2011 North videos, these kites look quite similar. The bar really looks like the cats meow though....very nice chicken loop. From looking at foils all the time I realized that I know absolutely squat about inflatables.:puzzled:

You'll adapt quickly.
Rebel looks like the big freeride kite, and that's what you'll be doing for a while yet 'freeride' usually means good upwind, nice big floaty jumps, good relaunch ...

The Evo is Norths newer Delta shape........................Rebel is a good upwind, jumping freeride kite with good low end.....................rebels have been around for years...................................once you advance to freestyle the rebel will still produce......................

Norths bar and safety systems are awesome as are most of the inflatables for obviouss reasons...................

The instructor I learned from swears by the Rebel for beginners. The way the chicken loop releases to 5th line flips the kite to the leading edge and depowers is for good safety. The 08 and 10' are the good model years, I have read the 09 requires extra pumping effort to make rigid. I think (correct me if I am wrong) the Evo is more C-kite like but has a bow type bridle. I have never flown one. I had one lesson on the Rebel and one lesson on the fuse and progressed well during the lesson according to the teacher because I was not so concerned about the kite.
One thing you will have to get used to is the long throw and use of the stopper. With PL and FS bars with the trim strap and the nature of the foils, you can let go of the bar and the kite will sit at 12 (PL more than FS). This is great for getting the board on your feet. With the rebel or OR Rise, you let go of the bar and if you don't have the stopper set, it will depower and fall from the sky. This can be a good thing if you get into trouble, just let go of the bar. With an LEI You will need to set the stopper or keep one hand on the bar flying as you get sorted with the board on to your feet for a water start. (I think I still take too long fannying about putting my feet in the straps.)

a newer SLE and Delta will sit with a tip in the water while you get your feet in the straps.....................

Quote:

Originally posted by tridude a newer SLE and Delta will sit with a tip in the water while you get your feet in the straps.....................

Yes the OR Rise sits at the edge nicely. On friday a couple of times I just put it at the edge and swam a few yards back to the board upwind rather than body dragging. Much faster to get to the board. I still have a hard time body dragging upwind in a current.

I think I'm sold on the North Rebel, really sounds to be the right kit for learning and progressing.....now I just need that tax return to arrive. Later on when I have some skills I'll give the foils a try, till then I'll reserve them for land.

I learned to water with LEI's... they are easier to relaunch when your learning... After that, it's all up to the style of riding you like to do. There newer LEI's are really good kites. Arc's have the auto-zenith... but until you get used to letting go of the bar when you know your gonna wipe out... Lei's are so much easiier to relaunch from the water.

Y'all are spending too much time putting your boards on
I like the North gear ... it's a pity their engineer is a moron (dull story) and their graphics guy is obsessed with Cuban fruit hats
Cost is a bit mad too - I'd love to pick up a bar for the Speed2 but $500 for a bar? Gedouddahere!

Yeah the graphics are really busy, hoping I can find one in the black scheme...really looks the best out of the colors. I definitely spend too much time getting the board on. Especially with wetsuit boots, the rubber soles hold you in there, but don't like to slide in very nice. Might have to get used to getting my feet in place loosely, then snugging things up once I'm riding.:dunno:

The North Graphics are crap. The best year is 08 when it is simple colors. I like the Ocean Rodeo graphics and the Pulse I graphics. Keep it simple color/black/white. The 2010 North is just ugly. Sorry I ain't flying a pink and green kite. They did do a black and white one last year that is ok.
I started to just stick my feet in the straps and go. Cinching feet down with the straps does not seem to help anything. More time on the board just riding it does. Tridude will tell you to go strapless eventually.
I just had a great day today and Friday at Alameda Crown Beach. Yesterday was 10mph then 2 then 10 again. Yesterday even the Silver Arrow could not save the day. But 2 out of 3 days ain't bad. Friday and today on the 12 Rise. I started with the Spleen Session in lower wind and then moved to the Mako skinny once it was around 20mph and above. I am going to have to get another Mako wide or King. The Mako is fun to skate around with and easy on the knees. Spleen Session is a great starter board cause it is wide and not too long.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kamikuza their graphics guy is obsessed with Cuban fruit hats

That is funny. could not agree more.

I had the same problem with booties - I set the straps on land, then wiggled my feet in as far as I could easily, then got up on the board ... bouncing around, your feet work their way in eventually :D
Have TRIED to adjust straps when riding, but it never works that well ... usually fall over and have to start all over again

We got 30 to 40 knots here - plus gusts :o - as the tyhpoon blows past down south. Can't get to the beach today at all though damned work!

The salesman I've been talking too is really recommending the Evo to me. Is there a risk when only flying on 4 lines opposed to a 5 line setup????? Really driving me nuts now. The Evo is designed to work on 5th line or 4 line, the problem is that I either buy a 4 line bar that comes with the kite or I'm guessing stipulating that I want a 5th element bar. Its the same at the bar, but changes at the kite. Some places I've read that the Evo handles gusty stuff better on 5th line. This stuff is really nerve racking. Good thing I have two to three weeks before I can buy.