....... As I am reading many posts in PKF I see there is so many kiters that recommend PL arcs as primary quaver ................

Why you like them so much ?????

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What part of this design make you use other kites ????

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3 pros and 3 cons ...... thats what I am asking for ............


Best to use for ........ (buggy , landboard, kiteboard, snowkiting )
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If you really dont like them ...... please ..... let us know why ?????

Super stable, faster turning than open foil kites, lifty, no bridals, upper wind range is almost endless, autozenith, last more than one season unlike LEI kites. Can keep flying even if there's a small tear, NO PUMPING! Can buggy, ATB, snowkite, and kite surf with them

1) Super stable
2) Lack of bridles keep everything simple
3) Flies fine tied to the bumper while I eat


1) Inverts and bowties are a real pain when they happen
2) Prefill can be slow sometimes
3) Doesn't perform the best in lower winds

1)Amazing kites work awesome for kitesurf, landboard, buggy and snowkite

Another for auto zenith. While trying to man 4 GoPro's at the same time this is good thing not having to look towards the sky. And of course the Phantom is a sexy kite to be under Gust muncher for us inlanders.

Love:
1) Gust munching
2) No bridles (or pump)
3)Autozenith

Loathe: (Is that the right use of the word?)
1) Botched launch bowties (worse with the Phantoms)
2) Setup time (lines and prefill)
3) "Mattress" comments from tubers

All purpose.

I can't wait to get the board skills set (water) and then go out on the "perfect day" to fly all - LEI, Arc and FSer one after the other to start making real sense out of the differences. I know FSer will nail top points in the setup and launch dept., suspect the Arcs will reign in the stability dept., and relaunch I think will have to go to the LEI (but technically the Arc should never crash...if I let go in time.)

Predicting an enlightening summer......

I only rode mine once and liked it a lot but got rid of it because it's not easy at all to launch from tight crowded areas. I need a kite I can do that with.

Pros:
1) Gust handling. Nothing I've ridden can match an Arc in punchy chunder winds.
2) Stability. Even though we don't get to use Autozenith much here Arcs are still more rock solid stable than anything else.
3) Depow/Power range. Nice to know that you can adjust the power to whatever you need when you need it.
4) No bridals. Nothing to snag on crust or ice shards. Also good if you get too friendly with the tree line.
5) Tunability. You have a huge amount of tinkering that can be done on Arcs. Either with the stock settings or with add on stuff.
6) Lift.
7) Upwind performance. The Charger goes upwind awesome. The old F-Arcs go crazy upwind and blow my friends Speed 3s away in the upwind department.

Cons:
1) Normal inflation method is a PITA in shifty gusty winds. We use an inflator just because it's faster and easier.
2) Low/No wind performance. Arcs can handle low winds but it's a lot of work. More so than a lot of other kites sometimes.
3) Underinflated launching. Don't really know if it's a "con". What else flies well underinflated? Bowties are a pain but usually I can get them out without having to go to the kite. No usually the case when a FS or othe bridaled kite bowties.

Unbeatable on snow if there's some wind.

I know I have more Pros than requested and less cons but what can I say? It's why I've chosen Peter Lynn Arcs as my kite.:tumble:

Five or six years ago, PL's had depower like nobody else. Now a days, that gap has been filled with bows and SLE's. PL's still have the nod for:

- ease of set up / break down (no pumping)
- ease of self launch
- ease of self landing
- safety when flagged out (the kite is fully released)

Otherwise, bows and SLE's either match or exceed a PL.

Edit: Oh, and I almost forgot one other aspect where PL's beat inflatos: its community. Once you start flying a PL it's like becoming a member of a club. No other brand has such a following.

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Originally posted by bigkahuna Edit: Oh, and I almost forgot one other aspect where PL's beat inflatos: its community. Once you start flying a PL it's like becoming a member of a club. No other brand has such a following.

I like that comment very much..... I totally agree ........

the forever back up. when rest has had enough arcs will be rockin' on. NO bladders , no pump.

simple effective stable

i have a bunch of 6 year old tubes that won't pump

i have a bunch of 6 year old arcs that will fly til your bones ache.

super easy up and down(i have never understood why this is troublesome)

tubes have a knot or 2 firmer lower end on the water, arcs require action in flight to fill this gap.

with skills they all do the same fast, unhook, loop, recover, fly inverted ...oh thats a bonus

bar feedback from a well tuned arc has a "human" feel to it, tubes have a "machined" feel. like swinging from a tree v. steel swing set.

Love :

Stability and auto zenith = forgiving nature
Gust munching
"Mattress" comments from Tubers!

Dislike :

Time . Setting up and packing up. At least with a pump you know in 122 pumps you will be filled. Flop out a foil !
Blown launches. Usually due to rushing on dislike #1 or lack of bottom end.
Only 2 options. Charger or used !

When the winds are strong I feel so much more safe with my arcs . With my Synergy it feels like if I blow it, my kite will forgive me and allow me a second to react. Other kites ( + the smaller charger ) feel like they are going to punish me for mistakes + slowing reaction time. I think that many LEI's have that forgiving nature now ?

When your skills get better and better you can fly these way out of their range. When the wind is stable you can take them out in biking winds and go huge. Lots of other kites you can't really take them much out of their wind range. I also forgot about what Chris said.....they can be tuned up with so many different settings

I must say on the water relaunch issue. It's no issue. With my synergy, I never botched a relaunch off the water. It was seldom more than a bounce. If it did lay down on the water, I'd be up in less than 15 seconds. I think it has lots to do with how well the flier understands the kite and wind. With a line to all 4 corners, you can manipulate it any way you want to spin around and launch. This is a reason I'm not sure I'll ever own a Y-line Navigator bar.

If you completely breakdown the kite at packup, then setup can be time consuming. sausage bag with all connected can be pretty quick.

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Originally posted by BeamerBob If you completely breakdown the kite at packup, then setup can be time consuming. sausage bag with all connected can be pretty quick.

I also leave my lines connected and the spars in the pockets so its a quick launch and tear down.

Quote:

Originally posted by BeamerBobWith a line to all 4 corners, you can manipulate it any way you want to spin around and launch. This is a reason I'm not sure I'll ever own a Y-line Navigator bar.

Sooo agree with this. The key to a tight launch area is to peel the kite off the ground; can only do this well when you can pull that top downwind line.

Quote:

Originally posted by flyjump I also leave my lines connected and the spars in the pockets so its a quick launch and tear down.

I've thought about packing this way tons of times and for some reason still haven't. With an added leaf blower for inflation, one should be up and riding in a few minutes.

shaggs, that is definatly the way to do it as long as you have a place to store your kite with the spars in it.

I love the way they “feel” in the air..
They are awesome on snow in gusty wind.. any wind for that matter
They are great for blasting around in the buggy
Easy to launch and land alone.. No pump is good
The Venom2 13 is my favorite kite to fly.

They would be perfect but....

They are not that good for surfing.
Bottom end on water is horrible.
They need a fast board.. Bigger and flatter then what you
would use with an LEI in the same wind.. Bigger board = less fun
Garbage in choppy water

And they cost way too much on the used market

I got 2 near new 2008 LEI's with 1 bar... for less then the cost
of my 2008 15m Synergy.. And the LEI's are 100x better on the water

Nothing out there is as smoooth as an ARC! Nothing out there has as huge of a sweet spot as a twinskin! Plus all of the other positives others have mentioned here.

Riding them since 2001, only a couple of disadvantages have come to light for me recently (only the last couple of years)...

I HATE how they feel in turbulent winds (not gusty winds, but turbulent winds). LEI riders are used to being attached to a "jackhammer" the whole time, I am not. Also, I HATE how less predictable the launches, and landings, and flying can be in these turbulent winds.

Solo launching and landing ARC's require a minimum of room. Something we have less of in the last couple of years due to very high water level and this year is the worst. Any wind and our beaches are underwater. The LZ has gone from a nice beach to an extremely tight beach, or rock jetti, or roadway, or parking lot and any can have wind shadows (turbulent winds).

Although assisted launches and landings and drift launches are possible (with practice) with twinskins they are much less predictable even in ideal winds. More so in turbulent winds. Even less predicable with the lack of reliable assistance.

LEI handle this stuff much easier /better.

I have damaged my ARC's more in the last 2 years due to blown launches and landings in these conditions than in the first 8 years.

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They are not that good for surfing.

Be curious to know your thoughts as to why.

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Nothing out there is as smoooth as an ARC! Nothing out there has as huge of a sweet spot as a twinskin! Plus all of the other positives others have mentioned here.

Not sure I'd agree with that, but the most recent Arc I've flown is a Venom and I'm comparing that to my Bularoo's, which I find pull much more consistently and smoothly during gybes, etc.

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They are not that good for surfing.

It wasn't me who said that, but I would agree with it to a point. It depends on how you surf. If you tend to park the kite to one side while you surf, or tend to go out a bit over powered, I think an arc works fine. But if you rely on the surge of power you get while turning or gybing the kite, then my Bularoo's are much better at this than any arc I've flown.

Just keep in mind, there really isn't a perfect kite any more than there's a right way to kitesurf. Everyone has their particular tastes and style. Add to that the huge variety of inflatos out there, and just about anything works in the right hands.

Question for those who fly arcs and LIEs on water ......

What is power equivalent between those two types of kites .....

like 19m PL Syn = ??m LIE

My Venom 19 had roughly the equivalent to a 14/15 SLE and my Phantom 15 had roughly the equivalent to a 12/13 SLE.

I had a Venom1 19..
I think It had the bottom end of a 12m LEI.. I made a post about it way back when....I couldn't believe how bad it was on the water.

I was out on the water on my Venom2 13 when others
were on 8-10m LEI's.. Power was just kicking in.. upwind
was work.. the LEI's were doing fine..

I think my biggest problem is where I surf. When we have enough wind for a Arc the water has too much chop.
Arcs are apparent wind machines.. they pull harder the faster you go.. If you get slowed down by too much chop the
apparent wind is gone and you have to start building it again
Point more downwind dive the kite loose more ground..
It's almost like they don't have the grunt to bust through the
chop. Arc's like a flat board.. A flat board is bad for chop

They do work in the right conditions with the right board..
My LEI's on the other hand work in all conditions with any board.

Don't get me wrong I love Arcs. I hate the fact that there no fun on the water and I need a full quiver of tubes

don't have a ton of experience on my arc...

But on land, arcs shine in the gusts, making even miserable days seen semi-reasonable, and how the kite simply adjusts so easily to shifts in wind speed. I guess this is part of the 'smooth' quality that zero talks about.

Minuses...for me, relaunches especially compared to foils on land. I'm new to the water, but relaunch didn't go so great on the water either.


mmm, v13 not getting out when 8m leis are riding! I am new to the water (been riding land till now), and when I was out for my 3rd day, the 8s were not flying, and 10s were working and 12s were lit. I got up on the v13 no problem. When the wind died a bit so the v13 just couldn't quite do it, the guys on the 10s weren't riding either. And....that is with poor board skills cause I am new to the water. It was about 1 foot chop that day and I'm average weight and 136 board. I know that on land, my v13 is not too far off from a 10/11 and it has great upper end. Haven't ridden a lei much, so can't really comment on that yet.

I am pleased with the bottom end of my Venom2 13 on land
It was my one kite quver last winter.. If I could get it to fill I was going on the snow.. In the past I used 3/4.9 and 7.8m
Flexi Blades the 13mV2 replaces them all except 1-2 knts bottom end on the 7.8..

Syns were ok (I had a 15 and 10)... I love the direct feeling
of no VPC.. Of all the ARC's I have owned I like the 13v2 best
The bottom end for me on the 13 was about the same as the Syn15

It seems like every kite past the V2 gains a fraction more bottom end at the cost of what makes the ARC such a great kite.......Stability..

Am I wrong?

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkahuna Quote: Nothing out there is as smoooth as an ARC! Nothing out there has as huge of a sweet spot as a twinskin! Plus all of the other positives others have mentioned here. Not sure I'd agree with that, but the most recent Arc I've flown is a Venom and I'm comparing that to my Bularoo's, which I find pull much more consistently and smoothly during gybes, etc.

I was referring to how they handle gusts... smooooth. The Syns have more consistant /smooth pull than previous ARC's too. The Venom is an ancient kite (2005?).

Quote:

Originally posted by Kober Question for those who fly arcs and LIEs on water ...... What is power equivalent between those two types of kites ..... like 19m PL Syn = ??m LIE

Tons of different kites out there but this has been my observation from local conditions and from travelling.
On water...
15 Syn ~ 15m LEI C-kite or 12m-13m SLE
10m Syn ~ 10m LEI C-kite or 7m-8m SLE

“I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.”
Groucho Marx

:Ange09:

1) No pump needed
2) Works equally fine on land water and snow
3) No second person needed for a normal launch

1) Sticks. I hate sticks, don't care if they're collapsable or otherwise, i just hate them
2) Safety on the old models used to tangle up and make relaunch harder then it needs to be. Could be solved with the navigator, haven't tested that yet
3) Big sizes and low winds together can give pre-inflation troubles

Best for landboarding, kiteboarding, snowkiting