I want to know all there is to know about all the different peter lynn arcs
what each is good for
how well they fly
good ones bad ones

there have been a lot of discussions over the years on the various models and even applying different mods - tons of info out there from the arcusers group and other forums including this one. Personal preference and riding styles play part of pro/con choice - really depends on what you want to do.

i want something that is good for buggying and atb
i wanna be able to go upwind and do jumps

http://www.kite-fantastic.co.uk/articles/mx5alan/

good start with above link , set up and calculator essential tech/spec.

research forum , buy some used gear and you can the own the knowing.

some ancillary knowledge of wind , materials and windsports certainly helps.

a little bit of $ and a mountain of time . and this illness will only continue . enjoy

18M Phantom 15M Synergy 13M Venom

Just had to post that.

@AD72 - I forgot how skinny those Phantom's were... :o

Arcs according to Ken

I started out with few kites skills with the F-arc Way too fast and lifty + tough water relaunch. The S-arcs were better behaved but neither had much depower.
Once I had better flying skills I got 2 Guerillas. Too slow not a ton of depower and they just didn't win me over. I drifted to Flysurfer.
2 or so years ago I got to demo the Charger Proto . I was amazed at the improvements and was ready to try again.
I had stepped away from arcs right as the Venom came in. and so missed out on them + never got a shot at the Phantom.
While waiting for the Charger I got a 15m Synergy Demo and will never let it go !
The Chargers came out and I started with 19m. Traded to 15 because I wasn't getting the bottom end. Also got a 10m Charger.
My smallest arc had been the 13m Guerilla and I found the 10m Charger to be a bit brutal / fast for my more tame style so traded it for a 10m Synergy.
For fun and history I bought the 460 S-arc . Powerfull, fun little beast with strong auto zenith. A 1.3 Tarc just cause!

It would seem that there are 3 older arcs that have a strong following. The Phantom and the 2 Venoms. Having just gotten the 18m Phantom I see the buzz! No experience with the Venoms but I am sure they please. Many peoples favorite arc.
Arcs changed around the Scorpian era. They became more adjustable , faster and more depower. with VP2. Punchy kite but rewarding.
The Synergy tuned out some of that pouch and is my personal favorite.
The Chargers are very amped up. Not as forgiving but more rewarding for the agressive rider. VP3 makes the larger arcs much more reactive and that I like.
As the arcs have gotten more agressive the auto zenith suffers. I found it was more than my liking at 10m so stepped back to VP2 Syn and am pleased.

In general. Venoms and newer are the arcs that perform best. Older arcs have the good qualities of auto zenith and gust munching but have less depower + tuning.

Guerilla: very slow turning. good lift, not a lot of tuning capabilities. straps aren't adjustable.

Bomba: also slow turning, lift isn't as great but very grunty. low aspect allows for great water relaunch

Venoms: they are good kites. grunty enough to get moving with good turning capabilities. they also have good lift for jumps. these are great intro to arcs. smooth power good upwind (not as good a some other models)

Phantoms: slow turning, great depower, great lift, but take some skill to launch without getting a bowtie. great park and ride style kites.

Vortex:

Scorpion: faster turning, great depower awesome lift which is almost all vertical and not as much carry downwind compared to venoms. first kite with the vpc system. Also take some skill to launch to avoid bowtie. one of my personal favorites.

Synergy: better low end in wind range compared to phantoms and venoms. faster turning, but also grunty. since they are faster turning, it has great lifting capabilities

Charger: best low end of the wind range for arcs. Fastest turning and launch is much easier compared to phantoms and scorpions. I also think the high in in wind range is better since the navigator bar has long throw allowing for more depower. great lift with lots of float.

here in a nutshull is GENERALLY how most of the arcs fly. I havn't flown the vortex so I can't really comment about them. If anybody else wants to add to this or any of these kites please fill in the blanks.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner Arcs according to Ken The Chargers are very amped up. Not as forgiving but more rewarding for the agressive rider..

Ken.......this is the best statement that i have ever heard about the chargers. I've never heard it put that way, but from now on that is how i'm going to describe it

I am pretty amazed with the 18m Phantom so far . I am pretty impressed with the turn speed on the big 18m I have been swinging.
It may be slower than VP bridled kites but doesn't at all deserve being called slow.

Just curious, 18M Venom 1 and Phantom. How is the turn speed on the Venom compared to the Phanny?

What happened to the Vortex lineup? They always seem to get skipped over. Not much of a following or something? I heard rumor that they were one of the easiest water relaunches of the PLs (but I could have misunderstood). You just don't see them anywhere.

ken, i've never used the bigger size of venoms or phantom, only the 15 and 16. i'll ask the dutchies to see what they say because i know that they have had both in the past.

Macboy, my buddy scott has two vortex kites and he loves them. they are really comparable to the venoms i guess. it little bit lower aspect than the venom2s but i've seen them perform well while scott was riding. i would imagine that they have a good relaunch because of low AR. hopefully scott will chime in soon and give you the characteristics of the vortex vs V2. I don't think they did well since they came out at the same time as the V2. I think they made a mistake of saying the vortex was a good school kite so most people steered away from them. the only two things that i can say 1. they are stable 2. you can jump with them on an ATB.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bladerunner I am pretty amazed with the 18m Phantom so far . I am pretty impressed with the turn speed on the big 18m I have been swinging. It may be slower than VP bridled kites but doesn't at all deserve being called slow.

Agreed. It moves faster than a SA2 19M by far. A wide bar helps. Of the three above I like the Phantom the best starting to land board. Although I have not flown the 15 Syn or 13 Venom in their wind range to be fair. I really am tempted to try them on the water although I like the OR rises so much I have not found the opportunity to. One thing I am not keen about that I have seen in videos is the tendency to get dragged down wind after a crash as the kite surges to zenith. There is a higher potential to be separated from your board. Have any of you experienced that in the water? How is the Arc for body dragging up wind?

The big differences between the arcs is down to the aspect ratios of the kite and the use of a bridle. Bookmark the arc faq posted above and the wind range calculator. It is too bad that it has not been updated. I think MX5Alan does not fly arcs anymore.

Of note the projected area of the 13 Venom is 9.1 ar 5 and the 15 Synergy is 9.2 ar 4.9. You can see in the photo above they are very similar in size which is not what you would expect if you were to just go by the advertised sq meter size. The wind range calculator does not include the Synergy or Charger unfortunately but I would imagine they would be similar. Perhaps a bit better bottom end with the Syn VPC.

The Psycho 4 19m SA turns pretty fast.

While we wait for Adam to ask the Dutchies this is my expirence with the larger Arcs.

F-Arc 18m. Ungodly efficient high AR wing. HUGE lift, HUGE speed, HUGE upwind ability, very small depow. Not even an intermidiate freindly kite IMO, just a pure bred power house. Has some depow with the Navi bar but essentially flies like a fixed bridal. Sort of all or nothing. I really can't describe how it flies, you have to fly it yourself. (Make sure your act is together.) Check the weather reports if you 're gonna be out on one because if the wind gets wrathy mid ride you're gonna be be boned if you don't have your act together. No margin for error or fear on the F-Arc, just pure commitment. Autozenith is sorta different than other Arcs. More like "Autostabile" as it stays wherever you put it. Very cool and kinda creepy.

See it here....http://www.youtube.com/user/HardwaterKiter?feature=mhum#p/u/9/s3MPErZBm_0

I agree with Bladerunner. The 18m Phantom turns a lot faster than I would have thought. Faster than it's parent kite the F-Arc (one of my favorites kites EVER). Stable, smooth and awesome lift but definately a castrated version of the F-Arc.

The V1 19m was a great large Arc. Good low end, so so turn rate. Good lift in medium winds but turn rate was too slow to get much out of low wind. Glide was good, Autozenith was excellent. The first Arc to have really good depow IMO. Super forgiving.

The V2 19m was better. Better turn rate with all the factory installed updates from the V1 mods, more user tunabilty. Great low end with a PA of almost 14m which is more than the 19m Syn or the 19m Charger. Better lift due IMO to the faster turn rate. I was able to snap it back faster and get more out of my forward speed.

The 16m Scorp was a great kite. Fast, fast turning, great lift and glide. Sort of a replacement for the Phantom1. Unfortunately there were some issues with them that required some modding out of the box and I think that put some people off.

The Syn 19m lost a lot of low end compared to the 19m V2. I had both for a while and I took out the V2 when the wind was light. The Sun was stable, forgiving and turned hella fast compared to the V2 so jumping was WAY better. Better depow and better turn rate while still really friendly made the Syn 19 a great kite. I flew the 24m in a race last winter and it rocked. I have a 24m(+) Guerilla that flies awesome in light wind but with the slow turn rate falls out of the sky when using only apparent wind. The 24m Syn, actually turns and I love it.

19m Charger, faster turn that the Syn and more agressive lift. Loves to jump and with the huge depow range you can take it out in some pretty heavy wind. What it lacks in low end you can fake with turn rate.

The largest Phantom 2 I've flown is the my 15m. Higher AR than the Charger and fast, more stable, less agressive IMO. Can be tweaked to fly very much like the Charger but out of the box very much has it's own different personality. Hauls the mail for sure....http://www.youtube.com/user/HardwaterKiter?feature=mhum#p/u/6/fva0x5A-IyE

Revised arc setup

This goes all the way through the charger.

I didn't notice the issues with the syn in the water. If I did dump it, it was only a back and forth and I was back to my board. I'm not bad for getting dragged over the front of the board though.

I reckon the Synergy has more usable top-end than the Charger ...

Vortex- classified as a training/school kite when initially released and the v2 was released the same year so it never got a lot of attention. As for flying characteristics compared to the v2. I would say that it has a more stable grunt when flying and a super strong auto zenith feature. It tends to stay back a little from the edge of the wind again enhancing the stability. It was the first arc I flew and it is also the kite that Andrew my 11 yr old likes to fly when boarding. I think it is much less likely to bowtie then the other arcs. I also think that it is a little easier to launch then the venom especially when under inflated. My experience I would easily recommend as a first depower if you can find them.
Scott

Very informative attachment I want to stack some v2s I already have the 16 all I need is the 13 so common with it I know someone's got one they don't use that much any more and I got a wad burning a hole in my pocket so somebody please hurry before I end up in the burn unit

+1 on the VIIs

I have the 19m, was my first Arc. Love it, just never fly it. Too bad nobody is looking for a 19

Very stable, easy launch, GRUNTY, nice lift and great float. Turns a lot faster than you would expect a kite of this size to turn. Auto zenith is amazing!

would you be willing to trade

I dunno know Kami. I haven't found a concrete limit for myself on the the Charger yet. I got caught out on the 19m last winter and was able to get it back and switch to a 12m without a problem. I was lit on the 12m all day but I think I could have stayed on the 19m if my jumping skills were better. The risk of accidental lift off was why I switched to the 12m, the 19m kept trying to send me to orbit.

The Syn 19 would probably have been more of a hassle. Not as much depow. I'd like to get a hold of a Syn and fly it on a Navi bar and see if that broadens the range.

It's too bad the Vortex was marketed that way. It was the lowest AR of the line up and super easy to fly. If they had marketed it as an intermediate kite it probably would have been more popular. Essentially it was a Bomba with the same updates that the V2 recieved as far as I can tell. I've never heard anyone say it sucked and I bet it would be a wicked nice wing to have. But like Flyguy says good luck finding one.

It's true, you can't go wrong with a 19m V2 in the quiver. She's just a really nice, all round flying rig.

A couple other Arcs just to fill in the gaps historically:

S-Arc - First Arc that I know of. I don't recall to much about these (it's been a while).
F-Arc - Predecessor to the Phantom. Very skinny kite, not easily flown, forget about relaunch, but super lifty.
Guerilla - My first Arc. No internal straps (although we modded these with kite line to make them more rigid). Good auto-zenith, smaller sizes were kinda fun. My Guerilla 18 was stable as heck but real slow turning and no bottom end.
Guerilla II - These kites had internal straps, but were not adjustable. The only size I got was the 22m. I waited over a year for delivery and paid a ton of $$ for it. For it's size it only offered a negligible amount of bottom end over the 18m. Super slow to turn, super slow response to shifting winds. Big disappointment (as were all the GII's IMO). In retrospect, the 22m GII might make a good kite to pull a hobie cat around.

IMO the "best" kites PL made (at the time of their release): the original Guerillas (especially the smaller sizes), the smaller sized Bomba's, the Phantoms and the Venoms. All were major improvements over their predecessors.

Depends what you're comfy with I guess - Charger 15 scared me in turns when the Synergy would have just been entertainment ... just too quick through the window. Like, greased lightening :o
Oh yeah I flew my Synergy's in the big wind on the Nav bar - much more depower, especially on the trim

Vx only had a 17 as the biggest size too ... I'd like to try one again too :D

I have an S-arc but she's so old everytime I try to play with it it falls apart some how.

Kami, Ahhhhh good to know about the Syn. Thanks! Yeah, I really like the turn rate of the Charger. I also like how you can build power in the turns but I think it's an aquired taste.

I used to be jealous of the LEI turn rates I was seeing. Not anymore with the Charger and the Phantom 2 is right on par with turn rate.

charger is very quick, very tube like, c kite speed . with the bar locked down its has very nice smooth flow on the water .

its snap around loops easily can be more if super aggressive , it carries alot of speed when redirected so they keep going kinda ... very sensitive. def more than SYN.

venom...best drug in town pal
a true no pump pleasure!

Mougl, U2U sent.

agree the Venoms are a treat on water....................Synergy was my second choice but all this will change once their inflatable hits the market.......

Don't know if this is skewing of Target but I want to know more about stacking some v2s
I presume you would get more power from the same winds but have better performance than just one larger kite
Forging the land launch and relaunch nightmare that it would most definantly be
Would you ever be able to triple stack a 13 16 19 or would u just end up with way to much power and would it turn like a sixteen
Would a 13 16 combo be like a 19 but turn like a 14 or 13
Very intriguing
Must know
Has anyone tried it

http://www.powerkiteforum.com/gallery_image.php?action=view&...

i think jibe 08?, land and water V16/13.

really not much more power , kinda slow . relaunch ...doable once on water but maybe luck, light on the water is asking for it.

CWS has a link of a launch.

really a circus trick but i have done it for a few sessions for variety

We've messed with stacking when the wind was just too light. On snow. Pretty wild and you do get some good pull out of a stack but it's kind of a hassle.

Launching took some serious muscle when the wind was really low. But beyond that they launched and handled really well. They turned as one unit and responded as they would if they were just one kite.

Looks awesome to boot. We used a 19/15 Charger pair.