My beloved Bularoo 16m is starting to show its age and I want to start thinking about a replacement for it. It's been my go to kite for over 4 years and I'm afraid it'll be tough to find an equally good replacement so I thought I'd ask for suggestions. Ninety-nine percent of the time I do down winders in waves here at the Southern end of the OBX, so I need a kite that has good grunt down wind. Upwind performance isn't important. It also needs to be a fast turning kite (for its size) for wave riding. Several guys here are using North Rebels, but the biggest Rebel is a 14m and that's too small. The other kites in my quiver are my Bularoo 13m and Waroo 20m, so 16m fits in the middle nicely. Ideas?

2010 Rebel came in 16 IIRC.
Griffin Argo 17?
OR has a new line of kites ... the extended tip kites apparently turn quick.
Ozone Edge 15 is supposed to be pretty good freeride kite.
Switch Nitro 16 - good price. There's a review of sorts on the front page of the kiteforum-moshpit.
Cab Xbow LW or SB 16 - my buddy in Thailand has one cheap ...

I demoed an Edge 15 last May. It had a good amt of grunt, and was an upwind *beast*. Turning was kinda slow, though (could have been the tuning at the bar?). Given how far it sat at the Edge of the window, I'm not sure how good it'd be for waves (usually wave riding expects the kite to sit closer to the center of the window and hang there while the rider surfs the wave). I rode this kite on flat water, btw.

I have a 2010 Zephyr (17m) and it has a good amt of grunt and is very fast turning for its size (turns like a 15 or 14). Last Saturday I was riding it at the coast in choppy water and I when I was riding downwind with it in the shorebreak, it just hung in the air and didn't backstall or do anything funky. Btw, this kite has a LOT of top end. I've ridden it into the mid 20mph range (measured on a windmeter) and never felt overpowered or got teabagged. I don't know how Ozone did it, but that's a great feature of this kite given how gusty the winds can be in central Texas. I've ridden in 10-25 and I weigh 155lbs. Light wind board is a 146x46 Cab Plasma and the high wind boards are a 139x41.5 Flexifoil Delta and a 136 Cab Custom.

Other kites in that range to research would be a Best Taboo or TS 15 or 17, Cabrinha Switchblade 16m, Epic Infinity v1 or v2, North Dyno 16, Slingshot Turbine (lots of grunt, but limited topend).

Kami was correct that there was a 16m Rebel in 2010. 2011 and 2012 top out at 14m.

Dunno about the Edge personally but people rave about them.
I'd still like to try a Zephyr ... it's the range that interests me too - although I ride my 16 Xbow way out to 30 knots ... bit silly I know :D

Oh yeah you might be able to get a demo from Epic of the Infinity. Dimitri likes to say he'll send one to me but refuses to use anything other than FedEx ... he reckons USPS loses stuff and doesn't have insurance (wrong) but I believe he just doesn't want to go to a post office

Add to the list - F-One Bandit (most of the surfer boys here use them), Wainman Big Mama and Liquid Force with the delta shapes ...

I have seen a North Dyno 16 and Ocean Rodeo Rise Light wind 15M 2011 at my local spot and talked to the owners. Both were happy and I witnessed both quick turning. Ocean Rodeo has a new Flight line of kites for 2012 that are based on the Rise 15M and 17.5. The guys on race boards use Edges to go downwind but I would not think of that as a wave kite.

Blade kites was out on my beach a few weeks or so back. the fat lady looked like a nice "big" kite, I didn't take it out cause I was happy cruising on my 12. Should have taken it for a spin. Was watching a few folks on it and it looked pretty nice. So many vendors stopping at 12... or maybe a speed3 21m?:bigok:

The new OR is the flight.. would love to hear how it is. The rise is super grunty and turn nice.

I demo'd Damien LeRoy's 2012 Switchblade 16 when he was in town a few months ago. Plenty of grunt, but very slow turning. I know I mentioned the North Rebel, but I'm not keen on getting a 5th line kite. I just don't like them in waves. I'll try to look at the others you guys mentioned. Funny how nobody mentioned any foils.

You were talking about Best kites so we all assumed ... :P

Unity 12? P4 15? Charger 15!

I wouldn't mind getting back into foils, but only if they give me all the performance I'm getting with my Bularoo 16m (and preferably more). I tried the Venom 19 this summer and that didn't cut it. No bottom end, slow turning, sat way too far at the edge of the window. When I'm surfing I need a kite that will basically turn even though I'm surfing directly at the kite. The Bularoo will do this, the Venom definitely won't. What about a Pulse 2 or that HQ Neo?

Dunno
Charger is a whole different beast versus the Synergy. With the incoming Fall season here, we've got gusty as hell winds again - it's arc time baby! I'll let you know what the Charger 19 is like ...

I'm leaning against a PL for several reasons: first, you need a bigger size vs. an inflato (a PL 19 is roughly equivalent to a 14/15m inflato) thus they don't turn as fast, and all the PL's I've ever flown liked to sit on the edge of the window, not deep in the window. Great for upwind, lousy for downwinders which is all I do.

I wonder if Ted would send a Unity 12 down here to demo. I know a couple of other guys down here have asked me about FS's.

You haven't flown a Charger then scary fast turning!

I just don't want to fly a 19m kite to get almost the power of a 16m inflato and I have a hard time believing any 15/16m PL has as much bottom end and turning speed as a modern inflato of the same size (and that is based on 8+ years riding Peter Lynns). I'd love for someone to prove me wrong but I'm not going to spend $1,500 on a new PL only to find out I was right. I made that mistake too many times before. I definitely want to get a demo before I buy.

I'm sure there're demos around ...?
I'm just sticking up for the poor arcs :D Doesn't look like 19m in the sky eh every time I put the Chargers up, they look like half their size. And the Chargers are much gruntier than the Synergy ...

I'm going to put some serious time on the 19m and we'll soon find out about the bottom end ...!

If a Charger 19 will give me turning speed & bottom end of a Bularoo 16 I'm interested, but I'm skeptical. Not many PL fliers also fly modern LEI's and even fewer fly both and surf, so it's hard to get an educated opinion on the topic. SBC had a review this summer of different wave oriented kites, sounded like the Rebel was pretty much their kite of choice. Just got an email from Ted and he said the Unity 12 doesn't have the bottom end of a Bularoo 16, so that's probably out. Hmmm...

I can give you an opinion, but I don't know how educated it'd be haven't flown a Best (shudder ) but will be able to compare to my Xbow 16.

U12 might be a different story on a floaty board :dunno: but for sure I don't think it'll have the bottom end of a bigger foil - but then you lose the turning speed. U12 feels to me like my 13m Xbow ...

wainman big mama 15m. tested this spring. turns so fast, sits deeper in the pocket, does not go upwind very well. 100% grunty

epic infinity 16m: not tested, but from the reviews I read it might be a good tool for what u looking

forget about the ozone edge 15m. it's a high aspect built for race and just goes upwind. 2011 turns faster than 2010 but still a hangtime/race kite so not close to a big mama. the low end is amazing. I tested the 13m and 15m

blade FAT LADY 17m: I owned this kite. 3 struts, excellent light wind, better than big mama, but still sits in the window (nice grunt), drifts well, turns faster than an ozone edge 13m. very light construction

I was hesitating between the big mama and the fat lady, but I needed more low end, more upwind, but I still like grunty kites even though I am not riding waves very often. the fat lady was a good compromise for me

current quiver: wainman 6.5m, 9m, 12m, fat lady 17m, speed3 19m

hope it helps

That's what Ted B. said about the U12 also, not as much bottom end. Another option would be to move to a surfboard and just start using my Bularoo 13m more. Wouldn't work too well in really choppy days (like we had last week) but on days with good surf it could be muy bueno. That, or just start using my Waroo 20m and grow brass cajones.

What's the bar pressure like on the Fat Lady? The 16m Crossbow is starting to get me down ... holding the bar in is a killer in the higher winds I like to use it in ...

What about the Switch Method kites? Supposed to be surfer toys ...

Say, how fast does that 20m Waroo turn? Compared to say, ooh I don't know, just off the top of my head ... a FSer S3 19? :D

I had a FS S2 19 for about a month. Couldn't get it to fly worth a carp, sold it here and got an end of season Waroo 20m for $500 and love it. Yeah it turns slow, about as slow as the 2012 Cab. Switchblade 16m I demo'd a month ago, but the hang time on that 20m is amazing. I've ridden it in waves on semi glassy days and it's fun, it drifts very nicely. Jumps are super soft and floaty. Did I say I love that kite? I weigh roughly 240 lbs and am able to go out easily in 15-16 mph with minimal sining. In 16-18 mph I'm well powered and anything over 20 mph is over powered. Unlike the FS S2, I took to the Waroo 20m immediately. Super, super stable too. Like Peter Lynn stable in puffy light wind.

@Denis - so which is the better down the line wave kite, the big moma or fat lady? I haven't seen either and don't know any dealers near here so it'll be kind of risky to just buy one sight unseen. But I'll look into them.

... is there nothing that turns slower than a big foil?

Quote:

Originally posted by bigkahuna If a Charger 19 will give me turning speed & bottom end of a Bularoo 16 I'm interested, but I'm skeptical. Not many PL fliers also fly modern LEI's and even fewer fly both and surf, so it's hard to get an educated opinion on the topic. SBC had a review this summer of different wave oriented kites, sounded like the Rebel was pretty much their kite of choice. Just got an email from Ted and he said the Unity 12 doesn't have the bottom end of a Bularoo 16, so that's probably out. Hmmm...

charger 19 , gonna pull like a 14m lei. its PA is around 11M+ (like a 16 venom).

the CH19 is quick, it will feel alot like V16 but snappy on the switches

Quote:

charger 19 , gonna pull like a 14m lei...

Yeah, that's what I thought, thanks.

@bigk: big mama is better down the line.

but the new big mama 2012 is not a 15m anymore. it is now a 14.5m kite, and I heard (not sure it's true) that wainman improved upwind a bit on the 12m and 14.5m ???

the good with wainman is you can change the settings in 1 minute for : downwind, medium and upwind setting

Quote:

@Denis - so which is the better down the line wave kite, the big moma or fat lady? I haven't seen either and don't know any dealers near here so it'll be kind of risky to just buy one sight unseen. But I'll look into them.

@kami: bar pressure on FAT LADY is moderate (not as light as a flysurfer), and increase to medium in high winds. personnaly I like.

Thanks Denis. I'm going to try and demo as many 15/16m kites as I can. I liked that Bularoo so much it's going to be hard to find a replacement.

Report back I am interested in your findings. Do you have any interest in the Ocean Rodeo light wind kites?

@AD72 - Maybe, at this point I'll try everything I can get my hands on. Have you tried any of them?

I have a 9 and 12 Rise and like them. I have not tried anything bigger. One day when I was out on my 19 SA there was a 15M LW rise and it looked good.

What is the Crossbow bar pressure 'rated' as then?

"snappy on the switches"
Like a cat that's been cattle-prodded

Bigkahuna, There is a 17 Zephyr on Kiteforum for $450 and there is one here in Colorado from an Ozone team rider, like new for $450. Super kite, Ive seen big guy's and small guy's riding these kites in some pretty extreme conditions with ease,just a thought.