Just want to put this out there...

Im interested in trading my 15m Big Mama Complete for something a little more light wind oriented...

This kite is immaculate. It has been flown 3-4 times since I bought it from ripsession on this forum... other than some slight discoloration on the bright white leading edge this kite is like new...

I Paid $900 for this in June. I am only interested in trading for a next to new kite, I will also throw in a few $$$ for the right kite

Maybe like an OR Rise, Ozone Zephyr, Blade Fat Lady...

I thought the "Big Momma" was a lightwind oriented kite, what is it not doing that you expected? You got to keep in mind it is only 15m so a bigger kite might be what you're looking for. I have a Bularoo 16m that I don't consider a lightwind kite (I weigh 240lbs) but my wife flew it in 10-12 mph once. I also have a Waroo 20m that I definitely consider a lightwind kite. I will pull me around in 12-14 mph fairly nicely. How much do you weigh? What wind speeds are you looking to kite in?

I'm 200lbs... What I am finding is that I get the same range from my 12m SLE... At 10mph this kite won't make an effort to takeoff... I sold a 17m waroo the same time I got the big mama and I found it had about the same low end but required less input to stay in the air at low wind speed...

Wow! There are people banging on elsewhere about how great these things are ...? What's going on there then eh?

the 12 and 9 are great kites...........you could try 3 or 4 meter line extensions before you sell her. I would............

Ok, first off, forget about kitesurfing in 10 mph, at your weight it ain't gonna happen. Maybe if you're on a SUP board and a super fast open cell foil, maybe. Best lightwind kite I've ever flown is my Best Waroo 20m. It will fly in 10-12 but needs about 14 to pull me around. Turns reasonably quickly for a big kite. Won't fall out of the air during the lulls. You might be able to relaunch it if you drop it, but you'll probably need at least 15 mph to be sure it will relaunch. You can probably find one for under $500 assuming you can find one that is. I'm not ever giving mine up.

Other kites I've flown include the FS Speed2 19, latest Cab. Switchblade 16m, and a bunch of 20m and 25m C-kites. None of them even came close to my Waroo 20m. Heck the Waroo 20m turned twice as fast as the Switchblade 16m and my kite is 4 years old and 4m bigger!

Next thing is consider getting a bigger board, possibly even a surfboard. I went from riding a 145x39 twin tip to 145x48 and 165x42. Makes it much easier to get out in light winds. A surfboard or racing directional would be even better, but it'll have to be pretty flat rockered.

Yeah... untimatly i wanna be out in 12mph but you may be right my TT's are probably a bit agressive for light wind...

10 mph and 200 lbs is easily done on a 19m SA2/Spleene Door combo...................in the photo section of the forum there are 10 foot table top jumps in 10mph winds docuemented with the SA2/dooor setup..........................before you try a different kite and or board combo give the extensions a shot................the 13m Ovando produces nice power off 27m lines (standard set up for this rig). Try them..............

Brent - Be careful not to take the Flysurfer light wind raves too seriously. I did and found it to be largely unfounded. Here's my review of the Waroo that I bought just days after dumping my Speed 2:

http://forum.bestkiteboarding.com/viewtopic.php?t=6999

I paid $500 for the Waroo versus $1500+ for the Speed2 and IMO the Waroo is 10x better a kite.

Before you buy a new kite, get a bigger board. That will be cheaper and give you a much bigger leap in lightwind performance than just getting a bigger kite. A big kite with a tiny board just won't work in light winds. Won't matter what kind of kite you're flying. Heck, with a bigger board you may find that the Big Momma actually works.

I'd dispute that kahuna 10 knots plus is no problem for me. I'm not trying to do any surfing though ...

come on Paul youre not the only water rider in here................I wasnt trying to hook him up with a Flysurfer just stating that you can get upwind and jump with an SA2/door combo in 10mph................I wouldnt make up a story like that................Im hoping 4 meter extensions work for him..............

I'll back up tridude here. My first ever water ride where I held my line upwind was with his 19m Speed 2 and his 159 Door. Winds were about 11 mph at the time. I'm around 230 lbs too. I even left the water 4-5' once just because I was too aggressive in a transition. This is not a myth and tridude isn't going to spout stuff off here that isn't the god's honest truth.

man Im never going to mention extensions again!!!!

@tridude et al - I read what folks said about the Speeds and that's what motivated me to buy one. My own experience with it doesn't agree though. Come on up and prove me wrong. We've got lots of room here and I'm always up to learn something new. I've asked Ted to send me a Unity or Pulse2 but no go so far. I'd like to see it with my own eyes. I've owned 2 FS's and both were a big disappointment, the Speed2 most of all. The Waroo 20, on the other hand, worked exactly as I had hoped it would first time out. No tweaking, no lines to adjust, or stretch, or anything. Just worked, and happily, still working 4 years later.

understand you have good karma with the 20 but I have nothing to prove................for me it is as I stated earlier. Lets hope extensions work for Brent..........now I will come up for a wave/downwind session!

If you are looking at Flysurfer for a low wind kite the Unity should disapoint ? It's bottom end looks over 10 kts for the largest 12m ?

I am not connected with the large kitesurf crowd in Vancouver / Bellingham but I know they have a history of turning down foil options. Yet they are buying up Delux Speeds at an amazing rate ! The one foil that has been embraced for our typical low wind conditions against all odds. It tells me something as an impartial observer ?

@tridude - You're always welcome up here. The beach sand up here is too soft for a buggy but if you're into ocean downwinders we've got that in spades!

@Bladerunner - You talking to me? If you are, I still haven't given up on Flysurfers. I like everything about them except how they fly Could be that I've never flown the right model. Had a Titan then a Speed 2, now I think I want to try a low aspect ratio gruntier kite. I will probably have to replace my 16m SLE some day soon and it could be a foil, but it would have to fly an awful lot like my Bularoos for me to want one.

Regarding long lines, tried that back in the day when I was struggling in light winds with my PL's. Gives you a longer sweep (and might get the kite up higher if there is more wind up there) but doesn't really give you any more power. A bigger, flatter rocker twin tip will help keep you on a plane longer but a surfboard or racing directional will do all that plus give you some floatation for the lulls. If you're good at sining the kite, a really big board (like a SUP) and a really small, fast kite (like a 7m) can be fun. Not exactly "kitesurfing" and more like " kite propelled floating" but it can be fun.

16.1 Vapor and an old school fish...'nuff said. ;-)

Kidding about the Vapor on water but one of these days I'll have to try it if I can build up the courage...8mph I bet will not be a problem if I don't float away first.

Haven't tried any big inflatables but I do have a Speed 2 19m deluxe fabric which works great in light wind. I'm 215lbs dry and about 5-10lbs with gear and with my old school fish surfboard 10mph is no problem. Sine it down, point your board downwind and you're planning in no time. Sick the way that thing drives upwind.

Definitely check out a 'bigger board' and I'm with Tri on the extensions (doesn't hurt to try'em)....good luck and let us know how you do!

I'll jump in on the extension thing - around here I sell handfuls of extensions I make up every year - but I think it's for a lot different reasons. We start surfing spring when the water stays cold for a long time and the wind switches gradually more to SW and you have the warm air coming over the great lakes which are still really cold. There are different air densities and they don't mix properly. Then combined with the days that are sunny and big beaches with onshore winds we get a lot of thermal heat off the beach. So the warm higher air doesn't mix down to the surface of the water so the cooler air on the water encounters a doming over the beach. We could have anywhere from a few weeks to a month and a half or 2 months of doming. Drive to the beach and windy as hell inland trees bending and get to within 500 feet of the beach and dead calm and usually cool mist coming off the water while the beach bakes in sun.
So these days guys always say you can't kite in less than .... and don't use this and you can't....
One day I had made up some quick 10m extensions and threw them on my 16. Feeling like next to nothing on the beach I could see the tops of the trees rustling nicely. Did a hot launch yanking my 16 Rise up on extension and bang - parked up in the wind. Same thing happens every year. I head out a few hundred feet offshore and riding and jumping nice long floaty jumps (hard to get height but tons of hang time). I see guys scramble to launch kites all over and then within a few minutes all the kites are down on the water. Over the next 2-3 years I've convinced a couple of dozen friends that this cheap option is something that can make or break your day. So many guys drive the 2-3 hrs to the beach and sit and drink beer saying there is no way and you're not having any fun while the rest of us with extensions are out riding all day. One day in particular had a fantastic layer of wind up high and 8 of us with extensions out riding and kites were like sky hooks with everyone doing crazy long floating jumps while all the guys that aren't regulars to that beach couldn't figure out what the home crew was doing to find wind. I call the line extension "the magic bullet"
doesn't always work but a big difference when you get doming.
Im usually around 195 to start the season and a little less as we get out more. With or without extensions my bottom end had been about 15 km on a wide surfboard and 16m Rise but that's really working the kite just keeping a line with a bit of zig zag (downwind on the upstroke and upwind on the downstroke). At 16-17 km I'm going upwind and can usually pull about 5 ft jumps. So that's working right around the 10mph mark - a little below a little above.
Bigger board helps, learning where to position yourself on a bigger board helps (too many people lean back and plow water), having waves will push you downwind in light air, extensions can help if you know how to work them - trying to keep the kite moving as fast as possible and not letting anything slow down as you work the kite up to speed in conjunction with getting board speed up.
But light wind takes all of your skills and some guys not into into it until a certain wind range for their enjoyment. Everything starts to work a lot easier as you get closer to 20kmh and up (13mph)
Oh - and this last year when we had such a crap season from Apr- Aug I even did a double extension a couple of times running 45m lines - it worked but it get's crazy powerful if the wind starts to pick up suddenly and you want to get them off asap.

Get a raceboard and there is no need for a giant kite in low wind. It takes some practice to jibe but I am learning.

The Unity IS lower AR but it's not gruntier - Speed3 12 has a better low end according to the charts ... we'll see what it's like IRL. Psycho4 is lower AR than the Speeds too ...

Race board is the magic carpet ... the Master of Disaster here can go out riding MILES upwind with a smaller kite in lighter winds than we on the TTs can. Of course, all he's doing is mowing the lawn and riding back and forth but if that rings your bell then go for it!

Quote:

Originally posted by lunchbox 16.1 Vapor and an old school fish...'nuff said. ;-) Kidding about the Vapor on water but one of these days I'll have to try it if I can build up the courage...8mph I bet will not be a problem if I don't float away first.

done it ... fun *yes on video / on the net*

i should have gone with a bigger board than a FS Radical 128cm

my only suggestion for *above* is getting a bigger board.

i have a 2010 zephyr that i may be willing to trade ya