Hi all,

Quick question - is the PL medium navigator bar package compatible with a 15m Phantom?

Thanks in advance! :wee:

Yes. I fly the 18m on the LRG Navi and it turns suprisingly fast. The Medium would be pretty zippy (as zippy as a Phanny gets) with the LRG but the medium set at full size will work sweet too.

Krug do you fly the 18 with the Y split still in the front lines?

So, do all Phantoms fly OK on the Navi? And do they fly better?

At one point all I had was a navigator bar and flew it on a 13m Scorpion, 16m Venom II and 15m Synergy. Sure it would work. All my past arcs worked very well on the Nav. The Venom needed LE pigtail extensions, but other than that it provided tons of depower and a long bar throw on all species.

I flew the 18m P1 on a Navi with a split line and it flew great. Maybe slightly restricted profile but I didn't notice any ill effects, gobs of depow.

My daily bars are Y free.:wee:

Your split is 10M up? Correct so that the flag of the front line can still go through the Navi CL.

EDIT: see video below which clears it all up. 10M split was in original Navigator setup but removed.

EH?:dunno:

For reasons I have a hard time explaining I have found I prefer my long 07 bar on the 18m Phantom more ? It is the one I am using.

I tried the Navi with the Y . The kite flew ok but was restricted in shape + the extra length on the bar seems to suit me more ?

The medium Navi worked fine and I didn't give it much time. I can see that I would prefer it without the Y ? I think I went to the 07 bar because I feel so familiar with it?

I wouldn't mind converting to the Nav bar myself but just don't want to give up the control I have with 4 equal length lines. I might put one together from parts and add in my own lines for a combo that suits me better. Also it seems like a rear line safety would go with the Y line design better. The through the bar safety would adapt to equal length lines no problem though.

Bob, ive been considering doing the same thinh

Quote:

Originally posted by flyjump Bob, ive been considering doing the same thinh

I have been sticking with the Y for my Charger ? Is the Charger not designed for it?

i ran it with both the Y and regular 4 on the navi. not much difference. the Y-connector thing had this kinda wobble feedback sensation. very noticeable at first but got use to it. when i ran the navi stock set up on a tube it seemed fine, by far better than the bar that came with the tube! very versatile bar . i prefer it with regular 4 lines, easy on the replacement with after market stuff

This is sounding familiar....

Quote:

Originally posted by Feyd EH?:dunno:

Lifted from this thead on ArcUsers


What distance do you have the split located from the bar to allow use of standard lines? I read on further in the post and the front line mini 5th safety still goes through the center of the chicken loop.

So how long is the "4.5" line? It looks like a short distance to make a difference between the two front lines to flag out. I assume that the bar stops at the load ball attached to the "4.5" and single front line when the chicken loop is released. I saw in your F-ARC and BigBlu video that it does work.

There is no split. Well, not beyond the connecting point of the two front lines. One front line is attached to the ring the other is interlaced with the 4.5 line and held inplace by the load ball. Much like the '04 bar set up.

Not sure on the 4.5 line exact length. I'd have to measure it but I'd take a guess that its about 3.5 to 4' long. Has to be long enough to go to the load ball and through the Chicken loop and enough to have a ring at the CL to clip a leash to.

It has to be long enough that the 4.5 isn't under load when inactive. You obviously want the load on the load ball. But not so long that it's hangin' out the CL and getting caught on stuff.

It's a fairly easy mod if you have some mecahnical abilty. Probably a 6/10 on a difficulty scale. The critical key is modding the spinner and the Centrix to accept the pass through of the interlock of the front line/4.5 line. It will work without boring the spinner and feathering the Centris but only under heavy load. Modded it releases under pretty much any load. Maybe today I'll get time to make a demo vid.

And it's almost a RELOAD AND RIDE system. I usually just walk down pick up the bar, make sure I'm not tangled (rarely tangles) and just reconnect my CL. It's been very handy.

I've been flying my bars modded for 2 seasons and they've been great. I posted full details somewhere but I can't seem to find the link.

all about the center line safety pass through. i dropped it. stopper kept chopping it off

nice loaded mod

nice feyd

I'm confused. What's a 4.5 line? How does it get that name?

And how does a connection big enough to retain the stopper in one direction slide through the rest of the centerline and components when you engage your safety? Is the hole in the stopper much smaller than the rest?

Here, see if this helps.....

http://youtu.be/cCCzIJ3iKGg

This does help. Now that I've seen the video I think I can answer my own question. It seems a 4.5 line is a 5th line--a safety line--that is also one of the 4 main lines. It's dual purpose.

This is a cool rig. I want to have a 5th line safety system--or ate least a center-line safety system that threads through the bar, but the Y-line denies me the ability untwist things from the bar. This seems like the best of both worlds.

Thanks for the video.

Philip

Quote:

Originally posted by pbc This seems like the best of both worlds.

BINGO!

Yeah I like 5th line set ups as well but my expirience is that they get tangles. Not that this doesn't at times.

But I really like this set up. And even though I rarely cut it loose I love it how easily she reloads. It rarely gets tangled like earlier PL bars did. It's as close to "Reload and ride" as I've ever had an Arc.

That clears it up. I did not realize the laded stopper ball travels along the line once it hits the bar in step 4. Thank you for making the video.

Yeah thanks for the video!! I know how I want my next Depow bar setup!

I need to get a stopper ball onto my set-up so the bar does not end up out laying with my venom when I pop the release :-p

Sorry to resurrect an old thread - but I've only just had a chance to try it out!

Basically I rigged it up with extensions on all four lines and until I trimmed the clam cleat out to about halfway depowered (?) there was not enough tension on the back lines to steer the kite.

Should I remove the rear line extensions? I cannot see how the extra 3m (is it 3m?) removing the extension takes out of the line equates to however many cm letting the depower strap out is.

or is the navigator supposed to let you depower the kite so much that you lose any sort of backline tension?

Am I making any sense whatsoever? :puzzled:

Make sure all lines are equal first from the bar to a fixed point. Let the trim line out and bar pulled all the way in and you should have no slack.
Then go from there with adjustment at the kite.

Is the chicken loop on that bar standard navigator
Is the black stopper ball just a moded regular stopper
Could I do this with my 07 bars ( is the pass through in the bar large enough to acomodate the navigator depower setup )
I really like what u have done and I really don't like the top hat safety it is dangerous in my opinion always coming loose at the most inopertune time

Bump

Quote:

Originally posted by Looking_Up Is the chicken loop on that bar standard navigator Is the black stopper ball just a moded regular stopper Could I do this with my 07 bars ( is the pass through in the bar large enough to acomodate the navigator depower setup ) I really like what u have done and I really don't like the top hat safety it is dangerous in my opinion always coming loose at the most inopertune time

That is a navigator chicken loop. Indeed it the rig you see in his pictures and video is 90% Navigator bar.

I don't think you can use a standard stopper ball for this--at least I have never seen one that would work. You need a ball that is bigger than the ID of the ring that retains it and holds the other top line. The interior of the ball has a hole through the middle. One end of the hole--the end that faces the kite is barely larger than the flying line. The end of the hole facing the bar has a larger diameter just barely larger than larks head where the leash-leader attaches to the flying line.

This stair-stepped diameter change allows the end of the leash-leader to catch in the ball and push it up against the ring. I just did one of these today. The only issue is that the top line in the ball is pulled about 1/4" shorter than the top line that is larks-headed to the ring. My guess is a using a ring with a fatter cross section would balance this out better.

As to the 07 bar, I think the pass through is plenty big for this.

I haven't flown my rig yet, but it works well in my static tests. If you wanted to do this yourself and need to make a custom stopper, I highly recommend a drill press. I made mine without a drill press, but it took a long time and I botched the first two attempts.

Philip