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Author: Subject: Beginning to Stack and Jump/Few Question
zinger084
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[*] posted on 2-4-2006 at 08:34 AM
Beginning to Stack and Jump/Few Question


I am new to this site, and somewhat new to Powerfoils, so this is my first post and I'm hoping for some good information. Thanks in advance.

I have always enjoyed kiting but found it boring until i saw Powerfoils.

Last year at Myrtle, I bought a Prism Stylus P2 (on the last day). I could hand it very well (im ~ 200lbs.) and it was very stable in the air, but I knew I wanted more after seeing the scudding on the front adversitement for the Stylus Series. The P2 would give a steady pull, sometimes moderate into the window, but I can handle it pretty well. My buddy's Nexus almost pull as much, so I wanted something more for this year.

I ended up getting (2) Prism Stylus P3's for $216 total, one for me and one for my buddy (after I saw that P4's were coming out although they are much more expensive.)

My buddy is about 150lbs and, again, I am about 200lbs.

Now for questions:

1. Will my buddy scud easily with the P3 on sand? On grass?

2. Will I scud easily on sand with just the P3? On grass?

3. Should I keep my P2 and stack it below my P3? Would that be powerful enough to scud me on sand? Grass? Would my buddy Dave be able to jump with any configuration of the P2 and P3(s)?

Basically, what can we do with these kits alone as well as strapped together and will we need new line for the P2P3/P3P3/P2P3P3 stackup? I think the P3 came with #200...
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[*] posted on 2-4-2006 at 07:36 PM


Question #1 - Yes
Question #2 - Yes
Question #3 - Yes

All you need is suffient wind to do any or all the above with the Prism Stylus.

I've got an 10 year old Prism Stylus 1.8 and used it much to my liking during Fridays 20 mile an hour wind. When the wind is to much for big kites that little kite jerks me around very well, both on and off my buggy.



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zinger084
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[*] posted on 2-4-2006 at 08:30 PM


When you say an old stylus 1.8, do you mean sail area or length?

I actually got the p3 to fly today at a park with about 7-10 mph winds and it was pretty brutal to control when the gusts hit. I think at the beach with a constant 10-15 mph wind and ecspecially with my p2 below the p3, it should scud me pretty well.

Also, can someone direct me to a good tutorial on Quad lines. Can you stack with quad lines? Can you get more pull with quads? Are they easier to control?

I know that a bunch of questions but I really would like to get into this sport and understand it more.
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Bucky
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[*] posted on 3-4-2006 at 09:04 AM


In regards to the quad questions:

Quad line foils are really the next big step in power kiting. Although flying a quad-line is slighty more technical than flying a 2-liner. They represent a significant increase in controllability and safety. Because of this, the overall area of quad lined foil can be much larger than that of a 2 liner. Due to this, stacking is neather necessary, nor desired.

Essentially, the way a quad line foil works and is set up, is very similar to how you've flown your 2-line foils. On each handle however, is an additional "brake" line that is connected to the trailing edge of the kite on each side. These lines allow you to change the angle of attack on each side which can slow, stop, and even reverse each side of the foil independently. The benefits of this are:

Ease of Use: You can launch and land your kite directly in the center of the wind window, without any additional help. Or, if your kite crashes and ends up nose first in the ground upside down, you can simply apply both brakes fully and the kite fly backwards up off the ground, and allow you to simply continue flying.

Controllability: Controlling your 2-line kite is essentially like driving around a car that can only move forward (and with the gas pedal stuck). A four line foil, in comparision, is more like driving a light agile tank. Indepenent control of each side allows you to turn tighter, pirroette, reverse, etc..

Safety: As with all foil kites, speed equals power. By being able to control that speed, you can regulate the amount of power that you experience. Also, applying full brakes acts essentially like a kill-switch, which instantly cuts off power by destoying the kite's aerodynamics. (you can purchase "kite killers", which are velcro wrist straps attached only to the brake lines. Simply let go of the handles, and the kite flaps down power-free, but still attached to you!!)

But by far the biggest benefit, is FEEL: Any small 2-liner (or stack of them) can jerk you around in a decent wind. But the feel tends to be just that: JERKY!! But you can safely fly much larger quads, which translates into a much heftier, solid, and satisfying pull. (Being lurched 10 feet into the air in a big enough wind by 3 stacked 2 meter 2-liners, is terrifying, and potentially life-threatening. 10 feet into the air on a 6 meter quad, is exciting, and might make you want to try for 15 feet!!)

I encourage you to take that next step. It will be the equivalent feeling as when you moved from stunt kites to power foils (How long's it been since you actually bothered to take out your old stunts?!?):rolleyes:

Since you already have got a good grasp of flying power foils, I would recommend an inexpensive mid-to-low aspect ratio, 4 to 6 meter quad (Beamers, Radsails, Firebees, Busters. They're all over Ebay) Just remember to start in mellow wind. Then work up.

Hope that answers some of your questions. Let me know.



\"There are no stupid questions... There are however, a lot of inquizitive idiots.\"

Quad-Trac Profoil 3m
Eolo Radsail Pro 2.7m, 3m, 6m (x2)
Ozone Razor 5.5m 4.5m and my new 8.5m (The thing scares the crap out of me...but in a good way!)
Advance Io 7.5m
Jojo Rage 12m
Jojo RS 6m (T. Raw\'s old mystery Jojo - still crazy powerful)

Earthboard Rage mountainboard w/8\" tires
MBS Comp 32 board
Flexifoil sport buggies (x3) Highly modified
Peter Lynn Comp w/Bigfoots
Rockville offroad skates w/8\" tires
Homebuilt sandboard

Lots of Ritalin
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zinger084
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[*] posted on 3-4-2006 at 11:35 AM


Ive now been looking at the Beamer 2 5.0 from http://cobrakites.com/beamer2.html and it looks like a pretty good deal including kite, quads, flich gear, and pack.

Is this a pretty decent name kite and a good price? Will this give me some decent lift and awesome scudding?
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Bucky
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[*] posted on 6-4-2006 at 09:53 AM


A 5.0m Beamer 2/w lines, handles, etc.. for $219.00 seems like a reasonable deal. I think it would be an acceptable first quad.

As far as quality goes, Beamers fit into that catagory of "affordable, but usable" same as the other names I gave. They're not crap (and there is crap out there), but don't expect the same level of quality, performance, design, workmanship, etc.. as you'd get in say: Ozone, Jojo, Flexifoil. (then again they're also about 1/2 to 1/3 of the price!)

That being said, you should know that the Beamer has, by far, the lowest aspect ratio (height to width) of the four kites I'd mentioned. This greatly affects the way that the kite will perform and pull.

Generally, lower A.R. kites are more stable, and less prone to luffing out. The down side, is that they tend to be much less dynamic (less of a power ramp-up, when they start moving.) This is why these kites are preferred for mountianboarding, kiteskiing,etc.. where you want a more stable and consistent power source that won't throw you off balance.

Higher A.R. kite tend to be more squirly and unstable, and more susceptable to wind gusts, but have the advantage of being faster and much more dynamic (powering up far higher when moving) than their lower A.R. counterparts. This is why these kites are preferred for activities which want maximum speed (i.e. buggying) or where you want a much more dynamic and variable power source (like skudding)

Now jumping, falls somewhere in the middle. You want a kite that has enough dynamic power variablility (so that you only get lifted when you want to.) but enough stability and steady pull (so that it doesn't drop you like a rock once your airborn)

Now none of the kites I'd mentioned would be considered High A.R. kites. They all fall into the range of mid to low A.R. However, the Beamer is the lowest. Now I've flown all four of these kites extensively (nice having friends who own kite shops), and in my experience, the Beamer had the lowest :o factor. It dragged me around, but frankly, it just never kicked into a high enough gear to make any kind of decent jump.

The Radsails 4m, 5m, 6m, 7m, and the Firebees 4m 5.5m 6.5m and 8.5m were all loads of fun (not high performance, but fun!!) And I got decent jumps on all but the 4m's.

Just something to think about. Hope it helps.



\"There are no stupid questions... There are however, a lot of inquizitive idiots.\"

Quad-Trac Profoil 3m
Eolo Radsail Pro 2.7m, 3m, 6m (x2)
Ozone Razor 5.5m 4.5m and my new 8.5m (The thing scares the crap out of me...but in a good way!)
Advance Io 7.5m
Jojo Rage 12m
Jojo RS 6m (T. Raw\'s old mystery Jojo - still crazy powerful)

Earthboard Rage mountainboard w/8\" tires
MBS Comp 32 board
Flexifoil sport buggies (x3) Highly modified
Peter Lynn Comp w/Bigfoots
Rockville offroad skates w/8\" tires
Homebuilt sandboard

Lots of Ritalin
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