Ok, some of you may have seen my discussion in the snowkiting forum about the issues i've had with my 2011 11 meter Frenzy. I have been able deal with some these issues; mostly it just does not fly like older frenzies i've had (more like a manta i believe) and it REALLY seems to need clean wind or it has a tendency to collapse at the edge of the window and fall to the ground. If i focus on keeping it back in the window it does pretty well, and i can park it and go most of the time. It IS quite fast and turns pretty dang quick for an 11 meter. But one annoying trait that i haven't been able to figure out is this kites terrible tendency to overfly. If i bring it up to the zenith, i can not just let it sit there, because if i do, it will overfly EVERY time and usually will start to collapse if i do not react quick enuf. I used to have an M1 9.5 montana that was good (or should i say bad) for that. I think my old Slingshot ranger was the same way as well. I am trying really hard to like this kite, it has been really hyped a lot since it came out late last winter, but i have been less than pleased with it, and to me the overflying is just about unacceptable in a modern supposedly well engineered kite. If it was a race kite i could understand it have some quirks, but it has been described as the most stable frenzy yet... and so far im not buying it. I've tried sheeting the kite in/out, playing with the depower setting, the only thing that seems to help is if i pull slightly on the brakeline to partly stall the kite, but i really shouldn't have to do this. BTW i did try lengthening the steering lines to the longest setting, didn't seem to help either...
I'd love to hear any comments/feedback/criticism about this and if anyone else who owns this year of frenzy has had the same issues, what if anything can be done to correct them?

thanks!
Jack/kiteyakker

maybe time to contact the dealer. That sounds frustrating.

Here are some thoughts in the meantime.
it's possible that ozone has compensated a lot this year for eventual line/bridle stretch, and the kite will fly 'out of characteristic' until you log in some time in decent winds. Some FS users have commented on how unexpectedly their new kites have flown until about 10-15 hours have been put on them. Admittedly, don't know much about Ozone in this regard though.

"BTW i did try lengthening the steering lines to the longest setting, didn't seem to help either"
mmm, longer back lines will make overflying worse actually. Try the shortest setting on your back lines and see if that helps some.

I am assuming you've also tried pulling in the bar quite a bit to keep it from overflying?

other than that, can't help you too much as I don't have an ozone.

Ok i wasn't sure about the steering line length, but lengthening certainly didn't help, i will try the shortest setting, these bars only have 3 positions, middle knot being the factory setting. It seems that the shortest setting would make the lines pretty short though, im wondering if doing this might cause the kite to stall a bit, worth a try though. Pulling the bar in all the way helps a little, but in lighter winds this just causes the kite to slowly stall, and pushing the bar back out just causes the kite to surge back towards me.

I've had other new kites and haven't ever had a "break in" period. Anyone else heard of this??

It might be just a characteristic in the wings design. I have really crappy winds, and my 9m scared me by overshooting, crumpling, falling out of the sky, then popping open in the middle of the window. I was gonna edit the video I took three weeks ago, but it was 45minutes of swearing, so I tossed it. Full trim to maybe just a bit pulled in, with the bar held at least half way in helped me hold it at zenith. Other than that I have to move the kite around so that it will stay in the air while flying static. Maybe the shortening of the rear lines might make a difference in that department, but you might lose some top end and gain a bit of bar pressure. Definitely a good kite for upwind as you pointed out it drives to the edge. Really wish I could give more insight as this is my first frenzy as well.

I have the 2011 9m and 13m. These are the most stable frenzies I have flown to date (have not tried the new 2012). In gusts yes they will surge, but I never had one fold up, except once but it was the location and not the kite. If you leave the kite at zenith yes it will want to over shoot you in a gust if you do not pull in the bar. This is a high performance kite I would not expect anything else out of it. The key is do not leave it at zenith. I have said this many times before. Leaving a kite parked at zenith is never a good idea. This leaves you most vulnerable to getting lifted and it is a place you have little control with a de-power. I feel it best to park the kite off to the side. less chance to get picked up ... rarely will the kite surge and overfly, etc.
I am flying the kite on the middle knots where it came from the factory. If you put them to the furthest knot away from the bar it should make the kite overfly more like stated above. If anything try it on the knots closest to the bar and have the trim all the way out. This should create the most amount of drag and keep the kite back in the window for you.

Have you checked your lines to make sure they are not all out of wack?

Out of wack, not real sure what you are talking about? They are all hooked up correctly if that is what you are refering to. I haven't flown it long enuf for it to have stretched the lines. For the most part it does pretty well, but the surging and falling out of the sky almost never happened with my older frenzies. I guess i don't quite get where a high performance kite should be so...quirky. My 2 Ozone Access xc kites exhibit almost none of these characteristics, and i didn't expect that this kite would behave much differently than my other 2 frenzies i've owned, an '07 and an '09. These kites did not mind being parked at zenith and rarely folded and fell like this one. These traits are not deal breakers; and our winds are at times a bit gusty which can certainly make kiting challenging....but i guess i didn't realize i was going to be sacrificing user freindliness for a bit more speed and turning ability.

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteyakker i guess i didn't realize i was going to be sacrificing user freindliness for a bit more speed and turning ability.

If this were the case than why would any of us want lower aspect kites? LOL To go faster your skills need to be up to par of the higher performance kite or it will be a struggle. I get this alot from customers who think they need a yak or vapor so they can go faster in the buggy. The truth be told they need to fly their kites up to the level that the kite can perform at. When their flying out performs the kite then its time to move on. People flying a 3m beamer or hornet in 10mph winds will not go much faster if any with a yak or vapor of the same size. You will go much faster if you simply size the beamer or hornet up to a 5m than a 3m yak or vapor. Someone help me with the correct ratio ... 15% kite and 85% pilot skill = max performance.

kiteyakker this is in no way directed at you. I do not know your skills so I definitely can not comment about your experience level. It just kind of went along with the comment of higher performance kites can be a bit more hassle ... especially if your winds are not perfect.

My comment about the lines was regarding length. I do not really think that is the problem but always a good idea to check line lengths if your kite is not performing how you like. You never know one line might be faulty and stretched or something.

I wish you luck on getting the kite dialed in how you want it to fly. I think if you keep tweeking on it you should be able to make it perform how you want it to.

Thanks for the insight. This kite as been interesting,exciting and frustrating. Well, I do love a challenge, and hope i didn't come across as too whiney. I have been kiting for about 5 years now mostly on snow and now ice...and this kite has certainly presented itself as a higher performing animal. In all fairness, in steady winds, it does fly quite nicely and flies and reacts very quickly, something my older frenzies never quite did. My old '07 was a good all around performer, but had a fair amount of bar pressure but still a fun kite, my nephew enjoys the heck out of it. My '09 was a bit more docile but very slow turning, in my opinion, but all around very stable with considerably less bar pressure. This new frenzy is nothing like either of my old ones and if we ever get some real snow here and decent winds... it will be fun to see if i can get it to perform the way it was intended to.

Kiteyakker, just had a session today on your 09' ex-frenzy. Nice kite! Like you said a tad slow in the turning department but super stable and pulls very nice!

keep us posted on your progress with it, and how much shortening the back lines helps.

either way, in smoother winds I'm guessing you'll come to really really enjoy the improvements you're describing.

Just a thought...... I had an afternoon on Spartan's 9m Frenzy and had it surge forward and luff a couple of times which I never saw it do when Spartan was flying it. My Access XT does this a little too......I wondered if I was adjusting the bar pressure too quickly causing an abrupt change in the angle of attack of the kite. Try slowing down your adjustments and flying a little 'smoother' - I have no idea whether it will make a difference, but easy to try. Let me know if it makes any difference!

Ok, so i kited again today on super slick ice, it was 48 degrees today! Winds were 12-18 mph and gusty. On wet ice this was plenty. This kite has some serious power. I tried shortening the back lines to the shortest knot. The kite turns super fast, but with the punchy, gusty winds we had it was probably not the best test. Turns were interesting as i would turn the kite and she would haul me downwind for a quite a ways before i would get things under control. I never tried parking the kite at zenith as the wind was blowing strong enuf i was just having enuf of a time stopping and hauling in on the brake webbing to land the kite. I was having fun, but the kite was lufting quite often, but i blame this mostly on the wind. I still say this kite is waaaay more sensitive to gusty winds than any other kite ive flown, but i have learned to deal with this trait.

@ John, i have tried most every bar position and have tried to keep the bar movements smooth but a lot of the time moving the bar small or gross amounts seems to do very little to the attitude of the kite, at least in lighter wind. It really does need good wind, and then it seems to be pretty happy. I wish winter would come back and dump some real snow on us so i could test this kite in "normal" conditions.

Cheddar, glad the kites working out for you. It really is a good all around kite. Have any snow left over in Wisconsin? If you do send some over this way!!

No snow here! Had a slight coating on the ice, just enough to get good edge control but that may be gone by now with it being 45 degrees today. Think snow!!

Quote:

Originally posted by kiteyakker I never tried parking the kite at zenith

For wat it's worth, my Frenzy's do NOT like to be parked at Zenith. I always park them at the edge of the window.

thanson -

Could you say more about parking at edge of window vs at zenith? Zenith is the edge of the window but directly overhead, no? I haven't flown a Frenzy for years, and I remember having to be on it all the time. From what I read the 2011 was a big step up in performance/speed and a reason the Manta was dropped.

kiteyakker - have you flown the Frenzy side-by-side with the T2? I would think the T2 flies similarly to my older Cab Xbow, which is definitely not what one would call self-regulating in gusts. But it has huge depower range and responds quickly to moving the bar in and out. Inland flying maybe you'd like PL's for gust-munching ability. But that reverse launch capability on the depower foils is nice. Sure wish we had snow down in the Twin Cities...

krumly

Sorry to pull out an old thread, I'm just curious how you faired with your frenzy over the past few months. I've had some time to fly mine and noticed that it wants to stay out at the edge than deep in the window. Did you get use to it???

Hey kiteyakker, passing on a little tip from an expert, not me but works really well . kite cannot overfly if it is not there, keep kite very low and on transition stall kite and turn it over and release, that way you never need to go to zenith.

Nope, never really got used to it. I sold that 2011 frenzy, I sincerely hope the guy that bought it likes it better than i did. It was just was not my idea of how a kite should behave. As far as the tip...there are times when its nice to park the kite overhead, and yes, almost all kites will overfly a little, but this thing was crazy. I also did not care for the way that it shot way to the edge of the window, and it was absolutely terrible in gusts, and it can be rather gusty around here at times.

So...I bought a pair of '06 10 and 14 meter frenzies. The 10M has pretty decent range and the 14 will pull me in practically nothing, it's a truck. Some might say i took a step back, but i love both of those kites and feel like i could almost fly both of them blindfolded. They both work great for snowkiting, stable, powerful, a bit lifty but for the most part, very predictable.

Good for you! Newest isn't always better, if you like what a certain year has to offer then why not fly that. Just my 2 cents.

Glad you managed to get that situation sorted out and got kites that you feel comfortable flying. Makes a huge difference.

Yes, comfortable with both of them, plus i got two practically new kites for what i had into that '11. Krumly, you asked about flying my T2 side by side with it, nope never did. In fact i seldom use it, but i did take it out last winter, first time in a while. I was amazed at how quick it turns and the depower range of the kite. It worked great but i still like foils for quick set up, lighter weight and all that. But thats another topic....:D