so honest opinions... should i pull the trigger on this


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color 001... yellow goodness

16m

do want water this summer... almost bought one last year, and its bugging me that i didnt. I want it for go fast buggy, and the water. (and of course big air :D )Let me know!

yes or no...

What arc would you wait for?

new phantom or charger i guess.... wait is prolly used incorrectly lol

There's too much gun control.... pull the trigger.

ATB,
Sam

yes and wait for new arc, PL arc and PL tube better option !

whats the price point on a 17m fury? (just general area like $2k?)

seem like similar specs

I just got off a session with the 15m Phantom 2. If I knew how much longer it will be before Peter Lynn releases it I would say wait for the Phantom 2.

She got me through some nasty, nasty stuff today and actually made really dog poo conditions into a really good time.

But if you're in a hurry and have an immediate need I'm not going to tell someone not to buy a kite. You can't have too many kites.

That said I chose wait for Arc.

I demo'd the 2012 16m last Fall. In my opinion, it had a lot of grunt but was a slow turner. I also didn't like the 2012 bar, but I'm generally not a big fan of Cab kites so there you go. There was an awesome deal on a Bularoo 16m for $450 on eBay that I just missed out on. Apparently it had only been flown once. I use mine so much the fabric is starting to stretch out. On the water you'd be hard pressed to find a better 16m. But on a buggy? I suspect a twin skin might serve you better.

honestly, i LOVE my phantom... I had a chance at a 19m charger that was damaged by a previous owner pretty badly. it was repaired, but i still couldnt ever get it to fly correctly. My nasty winds would taco it, and light it up... Jacked up my ankle with it pretty badly with it. I wont say it was the kite and only the kite.... i may very well have been the cause... hell Adam flew it really well at JIBE last year, so i dont know. I want to get on the water so i can push some bigger jumps... water hurts from 20' up, but not as bad as a soccer field... but im looking at an LEI just because water relaunches are so easy and they are generally really snappy (REALLY want to Kiteloop)... I know arcs relaunch easily with proper practice... but thats just it... i will remember the frustrations with that charger for a while, and thats why i havent jumpped on the charger bandwagon... If im trying new stuff, i dont want to worry about equipment issues on top of trying to learn the water stuff safely


Like i said... the charger issues may have been me, the damage/repair, the wind, who knows.... but i know i wouldnt have taken that kite on the water around here

so, last year i started looking into LEIs, and after some discussion landed on Best and Cab.... Did some extensive reading, and sided with Cab in my head. I like Peter Lynn, and love the arcs... but i dont know if i can go in the direction i want to with an arc... be it me, the weather, or whatever thats causing the issue...

why cant i win the lotto and just buy all the kites i want lol!

Instead of thinking Charger, maybe you should go Venom.
I'm not saying this through self experience but from what I read/hear other's saying.
You already know ARCs and you know how easy/reliable they are so, why not get your hands on an ARC that was made for water?

Phantom's (and it's follow up Scorpion's) are landbased ARCs and that's where they excel. They're a real pain to relaunch on land I and can only imagine the nightmare on water. (Maybe I'm being a bit noob and an expert will say the opposite). But even so, there's a few people that fly/flown them on water.

Of course, if the winds are right, ARCs tend to have the habbit of staying in the air (:wee so relaunch is something that isn't required to do but if it does, then go for one that's user friendly.

Take in consideration that I never went water nor flown a LEI and this IMHO.


@Feyd
Regarding the P2, can you give it's AR or is it still in God's secrecy, :D


Regards to all

From his pictures, (unless the length/width is doctored too) makes them look to be most similar to a Scorpion. Not as skinny as a Phantom I but more skinny than a Synergy/Charger.

I like mine - even more now I moved the bridle to the faster steering setting I like it best from 15 to 25 knots so I can ride my smallest board on our choppy lake but I'm a fat bastard :piggy:
I could probably ride ok from 10-12 knots on the big board if I had flat water but it's no fun till about 18 - big jumps!

I've hurt myself more on things like falling over a foot or so above the water and being yarded - if you go up ok and can't land coming down, the splash-downs are usually very gentle... see my "Learning to fly" youtube :D

The yellow is more like a neon yellow IRL too. Looks good though! I prefer the blue and orange but that wasn't an option when I got mine...

I dunno if you'll kiteloop with the 16 but that's a way off yet unless you chilli-powered keewees are particularly massive!

Final words - parS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-n'ride, easy learning.

I have only flown a 2010 cab, switchblade (maybe) I think it was a ten and flew it back to back with my 11m neo. winds were a little light for it but it behaved very well. Better depower than my Neo and quicker turning. I like my neo but I never really believed the depower boasts of a LEI until I flew it. Two friends ride them and they function well.

All that said, I really liked the auto zenith of my Venom II. I would wipe out and just let go of the bar to focus on my board. Got a little spoiled until someone made me a deal I couldn't pass up. Have fun! I think I progressed a lot this summer by going on water.

right tool for fast riding and big jumps I understand.

Just curious, are you getting it for powered riding in mod-light winds, or to push the light wind limits?
I think the big foils still rule the light wind department sub 10 knots. But if you are getting it for powered riding in light-moderate winds, probably a great choice.

Click click boom...

Do it!

I think you will be very overpowered with a 16m xbow in the buggy. The 13m is my low wind kite from 10-17mph although I've used it up to 26mph. It has monster pull and lift.

If you want to kite loop then forget it. There are far quicker kites out there.
Hand on heart they are brilliant buggy engines. 7m - 9m are fast!

But here's another option.

I just bought myself a Genetrix Hydra 7m. Out and out race kite with Huge huge wind range -
22mph (BFT 5) to just over 63mph or storm force 10! and that's based on a 75Kg rider on water.
This kite currently holds the world speed sailing record. Sebastien Cattelan was the first to 55Knts Sabastien Cattelan 1st to 55 and the kite and bag bares his signature.

The best bit is the price. I paid £795 or $1,235 ready to fly. It even comes with a pump and sand bag.

I flew it for the first time on Wednesday and it's perfection. Bridles attached to the struts and this kite loops!

Checkout my YouTube video of it. No action to be found here just me unpacking it and pumping it up.

Genetrix Hydra

I might have another video of it on the beach 2mrw.

Do it. i did.
This is my go to kite.
Cabrinha's new bar, safety setup is great.
I have the red and blue (more like teal).

Not to confuse the situation or make it more complicated but....

I know there are people out the who either have or still do ride Phantom 1's and definately Scorps on water regularly. The Phantom I could see but Scorps bleed air so fast I couldn't imagine but if you have steady wind and you never drop it I guess it's not a problem.

But bear in mind, the Phantom 2 IS NOT LIKE THE PHANTOM 1. And I can't disclose the AR of the Phantom 2 but it is close in AR to the Scorp. The question you have to ask yourself is on which side? More AR or less?

I will say I liked my Scorps but the Phantom 2 out rides the Scorp hands down. I had the 15m out yesterday in, no joke, 0-5 gusting to 30mph. I was either standing still just keepeing the wing in the air or completely lit going 45mph punching through whales 2' high. Usually conditions I don't want anything to do with but the Ph2 actually made it fun.

The expirience with the Charger could have been a combination or irregularities in the wing since repair and you're lack of familiarity with the wing. The 19m is not the best size to try to get a Charge feel. That said I would not have been as happy on my Charger yesterday.

I'm not sure if the Phantom 2 is going to be "land based" like the Scorp. It holds air forever like a water based Arc.

It's too bad you can't demo these kites somewhere. That would make this easy.

Re. kitesurfing...
Keep in mind that when you're learning, the first thing you do is freak yourself out and try to ride in too light wind. The next thing you do is forget how to fly a kite and so, you need as much power as possible. You end up walking up the beach glowering at the little skinny buggers who are riding smaller kites with ease...
Being able to just let the bar go when you screw up and know that the kite is 99% depowered - especially when it hits the water, which it always will - is confidence inspiring. ParS-P-A-M-L-I-N-K-n'ride after the starting dive is helpful too...

I've got a 2010 XB 16m and on the regular bridle setting for 'lightest bar pressure' it has light pressure for turning, high for sheeting in and holding ("My forearms are exploding!!!") and let's say moderate turning speed... on the 'light bar pressure' setting it has medium bar pressure all around (actually way more comfy than 'lightest' - go figure) and the turning speed is upped a bit, making it much easier to work power out of...
Compared with the 2011 XB 13 (with a different bridle) it's heavier but you're getting a 2012 and the LW version which is a tad lighter than the regular 2012 Xbow which is a tad lighter on the bar than the 2011 which is a heap lighter than the 2010. It's a good choice.

If the price is right, Cabrinha are one of the friendliest kites on the market IMHO. There are cheaper kites out there (if you compare full retail) but the whole package is pretty good.

FYI I've flown a couple of Switchblades too, and I don't like them as much...

Since your learning Id go inflatable...............take a look at the Ozone Zephr..................we have a local thats 275 lbs and is out in 12mph winds (riding his 164 Door) and can probably hold it up to 25 mph...........excellent range and depower.......easy relaunch. Another great choice would be the Griffin Argo.........the 13.5m has the power of a 15m, excellent range and depower. Its a Delta C hybrid with nice low end much like my Wainman and of course there the 15m Wainman Big Mama................there are some good deals out there. I know you can get the Wainman or Argo for $1200 complete. Our local rider on the Zephr paid $1500 complete................good luck and if you can wait JIBE isnt that far off.............Ill have a Wainman and 15m Slingshot Rev 2 you can try..............should be a couple 19m Chargers around Im thinking.

Quote:

Originally posted by Drewculous so honest opinions... should i pull the trigger on this __ __ color 001... yellow goodness 16m do want water this summer... almost bought one last year, and its bugging me that i didnt. I want it for go fast buggy, and the water. (and of course big air :D )Let me know! yes or no...

you answered your own question when you said "almost bought one last year, and ITS BUGGING ME THAT I DIDNT"

@tridude... I never believe those "13 that has the power of a 15" comments

the Argos do fly a meter to a meter and a half larger................alot of power with many tuning options.................I was going to pull the trigger on one till I told our local Aussie and he seemed real disappointed he wasnt going to be the only one riding Argos. Of course Im more than happy on the Wainmans........

Yeah if you say so usually it means "compared to the last crappy 15m C kites I rode in crappy wind" or "pulled me downwind like a truck"

I nearly bought a 17 Argo but got the S3 instead... still would like to try one though eh!

well you can tune the argo for downys or upwind much like the Wainmans............I dont fly c kites and Im an upwind monster strapped or strapless...........reminder I actually do know how to ride on water...........:duh:

:D yeah I know... I'm still suspicious though... part of my nature I guess

I, like a few others on the board, am not a featherweight... This kite on a door, should be mellow enough to learn on... But like my other big kites, should allow me to go nuts when I get better.

It'll mainly be water kite, but occasionally an atb or buggy engine... I need to see where my new business sits before I buy this, but I think this is my next kite!

Thanks for all the input, I love you guys lol

welcome Drew............horses for courses..........maybe we can get a PL inflatable to demo at JIBE.....................if it can be done Angus can make it happen. Smorgasboard of kites available and mine will be available and at the ready. Bump your 8.5m B5 against my B3 even...............HQ should also have their Matrixx available again this year, sweet all rounder priced very nice! Ive seen this kite rock it in 5mph in the buggy..........................

So many blades at JIBE this year!