Hi everyone,
New to kiting, just learned to kite board in Maui on vacation.
I want to get a good used kite to learn on snow. I used a LEI on the water, but don't want the expense of beating up an expensive kite on the ground as I learn. What would be a good kite to have for snow that I could also maybe use at the lake on water? Some kite look like they are closed cell or semi closed cell? will those work better if I crash them on water?

Thanks,

DB

Some closed kites will work just fine. But you need to make sure they work on water. Flysurfer kites (with the exception of the Outlaw) are an example of a good foil that works on water. Peter Lynn is another. There are some other companies doing similiar products (Spleene is making one too, I think), but these are the two big players.

If it has open cells, it will fill with water. A mesh "guard" over the open cell will allow water in rather rapidly.

One the flip side, getting an old, already beaten up LEI is another way to go. Used LEIs tend to be cheap. Even going back a single year, you can sometimes get the kites for up to 50% off the original price and still in great condition. So... that might be worth looking at as well...

Hope that helps.

Can you give us your weight and typical wind and water conditions where you will fly?

185 lbs Winds probably 10 - 20 MPH. I am a farmer in montana and have lots of open fields. I was thinking about a 7m depower kite. I would need stronger winds to use it on water though, from what I understand.

When you say Peter Lynn kites, are there different types that the company makes, or do they all work the same on snow and water?

Not familiar with flysurfer, will look into their kites.

Thanks,

DB

Look at the Peter Lynn tube kites. Charger, Synergy, Venom, Scorpion, Phantom, etc.

I personally really like the way Flysurfer kites fly. It really comes down to what you are looking for in a kite, and what you like to fly. A lot of it is personal taste. They all have their pluses and minuses. Some people love PL, some people don't. Some people swear by their Flysurfer kites, others swear by their LEIs.

Best recommendation I can give you is to get out there and fly whatever you can. Find a local dealer, go to a Demo-day, find someone who flies your area and get them to give you the low-down on what works for them, and why...

Ragden,

Thanks for the help. My problem is that I live in the middle of Montana. No one flys here, and no dealers anywhere close. I am guessing that whatever I learn on is what I will come to like, but I am just trying to do the legwork here so that I don't get a kite and find that it doesn't work well for me. Also, I want to keep the cost down, especially while learning.

I will look into the kites you mentioned.

Thanks,

DB

Sorry, thought of another question. Do you have a budget in mind? This will help us provide direction relative to brand, age of kite, etc.

Budget $300-500. Will look to buy used on the forum.

What I am maybe looking for advice on more accurately is which kites ( non LEI ) are best on water for launching and crashing and relaunching? I think most kites will work on snow to get the job done, but I would like to be able to try whatever I buy on the water as well, and from what I have read, some are much better than others for relaunching.

Thanks,

DB

Montana hm? There is a group of snowkiters in Montana. Granted, that is NOT a small state. If you are willing to take a trip, I am sure you can find some folks who are flying. Are the Big Horns near you (do I even have the right state?)? I recall seeing numerous posters on other forums who were kiters in Montana. Unfortunately, I could not say where exactly they are kiting as I am not in the area (though would love to visit the Big Horns someday... )

I will see if I can track down the guys who I saw posting from Montana to get you contact information...

OK, that helps. Your budget will get you some nice, but older model kites. I am not the most knowledgable guy on here, but here is a start ...

Peter Lynn
- Vortex
- Venom
- Venom II

Older Flysurfers
- Pulse
- Psycho (III and older)
- Speed 1 and 2

There are many others but not sure they will accommodate your budget. I am sure others will chime in and you should expect some U2Us from guys that have kites to sell.

Don't fly arc in montana. Maybe in the summer it might make sense, but the windspeed is too variable.
I'd go with a 10m open cell and go from there.

I lived in big sky a year and a half; I never had a chance to use anything but my 9.5.
In Montana when it blows it BLOWS, then it's dead. People get out on alpine lakes all the time, but good luck seeing anyone...

Where in MT you at? If you're on the prairie outside the mountains you might be right in wanting a 7m

LEI is not the way to go for how harsh the land is. I flew open cell all summer and sagebrush/climate THRASHED my first couple kites.
I'd just buy a used LEI (super cheap) once you're ready for water; which won't be for another 2-3 months anyway.

A 10m open cell depower would certainly get you going for land-based flying. You should be able to find a 3 to 5 year old kite for your budget.

Ozone - Frenzy, Access, Manta
Flexifoil - Sabre
Lot's of others but I don't have experience with them.

I'm thinking at $300 range, your pretty much limited to the arcs like the venom or LEI 2007/2008
AT $500, the Flysurfers start to come into sight, pulse, psycho3 (depends on the size, some are still coveted items, like the 8m, even the 10m to a degree). The speed2 may be a bit of a handful as a first kite I am thinking.

oh ya, if your field is not always covered and has stubble showing, you might want to make your first several sessions at a fully covered area, then go back once you aren't crashing the kite very often.

might be worth checking to see if a couple guys are around your area on this forum. Flying with other guys will make it so much easier.
http://www.montanakitesports.com/

I got my sabre 2 for 550. just shop it out and stick to your price.
It might take a week or two, but people are always anxious to move kites when they see something shiny they want.

One thing to keep in mind is that you will also need a harness, don't forget that in your budget or you'll have a nice kite but no way to fly it. Some don't like arcs some do, some don't like foils some do, and some don't like lei, but again many do. Definitely hook up with a group of others and try out what they have, to decide what works for you. On the for sale section there is a 12m slingshot ranger for sale at a decent price. I don't know much about them, but it may be a good starting point to get through the rest of winter. You could then look for a used lei for the water. Or look at the arcs as they can work really well in the crappy conditions. I know this cause I have some of the worst conditions around (always gusty,shifty,one minute lit up the next starving for wind.) The only trouble I would have is getting the kite inflated for launch, but a cordless leaf blower fixes that fast. Its a tough decision, but soon you'll have a closet right full of ripstop like the rest of us.

cheers

I fly HQ closed cell kites and flysurfer kites. HQ would be more in your price range. Peter Lynn arcs are also a good option but they were already mentioned. I think that launching by yourself is a little easier with HQ. I had an Venom II (arc) and it launched fine once it was fully inflated, but until then it would bowtie easily. Once launched the arc's are great. There is a montana kite rodeo coming up I think and you might talk to guys there if you can make it.

http://www.montanakitesports.com/

Good luck! This is a great sport.

thanks for all the help I watched a couple of guys kiting on the snow last year near my town, but I was hauling wheat in a semi and had nowhere to stop. They were on a little patch of ground and I have over a thousand acres of flat open ground ten miles away. Only saw them once and never stopped. I figured I would let them come out and use my space... as long as they strapped me in for ride

question

What is the difference between arc and open cell and closed cell? Why are they better or worse for gusty winds? better or worse for water? I know what an LEI is, but have no other experience. I am out on the plains area, and we get plenty of wind, but it is sometimes gusty.

Thanks,

DB

thanks for the links, I didn't realize there were so many montanans with kites. The convention is 5 hrs away and my kids have games this week, but it is great to know and the montana site has other locals I can contact. Awesome, thanks.

DB

get on that forum and look for locals. Offer up your place to ride and I bet you will have people bite. You can require a liability waiver to ride if you want. I will try and answer the questions about the kites the best I can and others will add on.

Each kite must have something that holds its shape.

LEI holds it's shape by the inflatable bladder. The skin of the kite is one layer and goes between the bladders and forms the shape

Bridled kites open and closed cells
Bridled kites use kite lines attached at various points on the kite. The layers, top and bottom, are sewn into cells that inflate with air and form pockets or cells. The cells form the shape of the kite and the bridles hold the kite into that shape

Open cell kites have an opening that remains open that allows the air to be rammed into the cells. The continuous flow of air into the kite keeps the pressure up inside the cells and helps hold the kites shape. These kites don't repel water.

Closed cell kites have openings with one way valves of fabric that let air in but don't let it escape. These then work like other bridled kites except they don't need as much airflow to keep them inflated and the fabric is treated to repel water. They can be used on land and water

Arcs are closed cell kites but do not have bridles. Instead the shape of the kite is formed by the pressure of the inflated kite. They do not use bridles to maintain their shape. Most of them are designed to be used on the water but I believe the scorpion is not. The design of the arc allows it to change shape during gusts and decreases the surface area that provides lift. They also are balanced differently in a way that allows the kite to
autozenith.

I hope that helps but isn't too specific that it is confusing. Please ask questions. We are very open to explaining things.

Check out www.montanakitesports.com for local knowledge + gear.

DB adding to what shaggs said about the harness ... don't forget to get a good fitting helmet. If you are kiting on hardpack or ice you might also want a pair of impact shorts and elbow pads - you will spend time picking yourself up off the ground.

Quote:

Originally posted by dandre Don't fly arc in montana. Maybe in the summer it might make sense, but the windspeed is too variable.

I was flying my 15m Phantom2 in 5-27mph on Wednesday, She rocked it.

Having owned, ridden and loved Sabre 1's and 2's and now being a full time Arc rider I will tell you without a doubt that Arcs are the best kites for gusty shifty winds. If you can't fly an Arc in dirty wind either something is worng withthe kite or the pilot.

Arcs have one of the broadest wind ranges handle gusts better than anything out there. While everyone with bridles is getting thrashed in the gusties, those of us on Peter Lynns are just rippin and having a ball.

That's the whole reason we started riding them here in the first place.

The learning curve on Arcs is a little different. Launch and landing take some practice. But from a flight quality and an all round great performer they are great kites.

DB if on the off chance you do consider a Peter Lynn try to get one with a Peter Lynn bar. So many people buy the kite and bar seperately and never mod the bar to get the appropriate throw or trim range. As a result there are a lot of Arcs out there getting a bad rap.

Shaggs is right. Try anything you can get your hands on. There really are very few "bad" kites out there and you'll be doing yourself a favor by taste testing anything you can.

That Ranger that is for sale for example is a great kite. Out of the box it seriously flies like dog poo but with some simple mods it becomes one kickass light/moderate wind machine. I've seen them go head to head with Flyssurfer 15m Speed 3s on light wind days and hold it's own. But it's got huge depow and can be flown in some moderately high winds. Especially in deep snow.

But if it's blowin' be ready for some serious hangtime if you jump a 12 Ranger.

ugh, I typed a long dramatic response and realized I really don't care.
BUY PETER LYNN.

you'll thank everyone you did.