I have only been flying kites for a few weeks. I was bitten by the bug about a month ago. After promising my wife I’d buy her something of equal value, she let me run out and buy a Prism Stylus P.3 from a local kite shop in Seattle. I didn’t do much research on them but had heard good things about the company and knew that in a strong wind it would be a physically demanding kite to fly. I’ve had it out every chance I can and am having a hard time focusing on other aspects of my life since. All I can think about is kites!

Earlier this week I had it out for the 5th or 6th time, this time at Mukilteo State park. The winds were the strongest I’d ever flown in. I would guess it was 15+ MPH and pretty steady. I was able to launch it myself with no difficulty and after a few minutes of flying the edges of the window, I began flying it more and more aggressively. I was scudding distances of several feet at a time and felt quite comfortable. I’ve also become quite acquainted with tight turns, figure-eights, and most of my landings have been soft and controlled even in this high wind. I was only able to keep this up for about 30 minutes before I was completely exhausted. I felt like I had been running for miles.

I would still call myself a beginner but would not hesitate to take my Prism P.3 out in heavy winds given my experience with it.

So, here is my question…

I’ve flown my kite at Kite Hill (Warren G. Magnuson Park in Seattle) and have seen a few people flying HQ and Flexifoil kites mostly for jumping. This is what I want to ultimately do also. Clearly the Prism is not the kite for this because it is too small and has almost no lift.

I’ve received feedback from forum members on www.racekites.com suggesting that I buy another beginner’s kite like an HQ Beamer II. The Beamer is a good beginner’s kite but the owner of the local kite shop (where I bought my Prism) suggested that my P.3 was also a beginner’s kite and that given my success in high winds with the P.3, I may be ready for an intermediate kite.

I have been looking at the HQ Crossfire 4.0 or 5.0 and the Flexifoil Blade III 4.0 or 4.9. These kites have amazing lift to them but ...are they too much for me?

I’m 27, a pretty big guy at about 216 Lbs, and have a fair amount of upper body strength. I would obviously begin by flying it in 5-8 MPH winds- just enough to get it to inflate and maneuver correctly. I’ve also contacted local kite shops about 1:1 lessons to get me acquainted with my new kite (no success so far though).

I just don’t want to endure the expense of buying a second beginner’s kite if it is unnecessary.

I invite forum members to offer their recommendations or alternatives for kites that would suit my flying experience (or lack thereof), body weight, amount of wind in the area (usually 5-10 MPH), style of kiting (jumping, scudding, static flying), and that will continue to thrill me for years to come even as I get more experienced.

Thank you everyone in advance for you time and suggestions!

~Aaron

By the way, if anyone in the Seattle are wants to offer me a
chance to fly their kite and maybe give me a few lessons,
I'll buy you lunch / dinner in exchange. :tumble:

Here's my 2 cents...

Note: I just started in Jan with a 4m Blade III and have been buying kites like crazy since then. So, I'm no expert - just addicted.

At your weight (I weigh 165), I would go for something like the new 6.5m Blade IV!

I've flown the 4m, 6.6m, 8.5m and 10.5m Blade IIIs. So far, my favorites are the 8.5m and 10.5m. I haven’t got the chance to fly a 4.9 yet.

I just got two Begos last night and I got to fly the 600 today. My first impression is great - its build quality looks top notch and the lift was substantial.

I would just go for something bigger so that you wouldn’t get bored with it right away.

What are your typical wind speeds?

Quote:

At your weight (I weigh 165), I would go for something like the new 6.5m Blade IV!

I'm cought between the amount of lift I will need once I get expierenced, and the 'danger level' still being new to the world of kiting. I've heard the the Blade IVs are pretty cool too!

Quote:

What are your typical wind speeds?

I never paid any attention to wind speed until I bought a kite. I'd say for this time of year winds are 0-5 MPH in th emorning and 5-10 MPH laterer in the afternoon. Lately it's been 8-12 MPH but I hear that higher winds seem to show themselves in the late Summer (just long enough for me to get a few months experience on a good kite before they arrive!) I would still like the kite to be fun in winds at low at 5-8 MPH though and it's going to take a larger kite to do anything with in these slow winds.
Thanks,
~Aaron

I find a wind meter very helpful. I take a few measurements and then choose my kite.

For low winds, 8 to 15mph, I use my 8.5 and 10.5 Blades. The 8.5 seems to get going in less wind. Maybe because it weighs less?

Under 8mph is really not that much fun for me...you have to work the kite too much to get any power.

Maybe you can try some different kites at your local field to see what you like.

Another option you may want to consider (If you havent already done so) is to convert your P-3 to quad line. Adding the extra lines will help improve control of the kite and make it a lot more fun to fly. The extra brake lines will also allow you to reverse launch the kite as well as speed up the turning....generally improving control in every area of the kite.

Quad lines will also give you the ability to change the angle of attack (AoA) on the kite during flight, slowing the kite down and keeping it in the power longer or speeding the kite up and getting it out of the power. With the AoA change you can also produce more lift on demand. Your kite shop should have all the information and supplies you would need to add the extra set of lines and handles to convert it to quad line.

The P-3 is considered a beginner kite, but it can be used for many things including buggying or land boarding. We have quite a few riders in our group that use the Stylus kites for buggying and they do just fine in the right winds.

I would assume that purchasing another beginner kite close to the same size as your P-3 would not be very money-smart. If you find that you need more power output than your P-3 is giving you, then I would suggest looking for a kite in the 3.5 to 5.0 meter in size (the P-3 is a 2.5 M kite). By adding one of the larger sizes to your collection you will be able to fly in a lot more wind conditions than you currently can fly in now. If the winds are too strong for your larger kite you can still pull out the P-3 and have a blast. The same will go if you find that you are missing out on flying time because the P-3 has too much pull....then I would suggest looking into a kite in the 1.5 to 2.0 meter size.

As far as staying with a beginner kite instead of an experienced or expert kite, that will depend on your current flying skills. Even a beginner can fly a high performance foil in the right winds but they may find it not nearly as fun because the high performance foils are usually not nearly as stable and will require more input to keep them in the air. This can be frustrating if you find that you constantly have to walk to the kite to un-tangle it or un-do a bow tie or it constantly collapses on you during flight.

If at all possible, talk with your local shop and get them to let you fly some demo's of the different kites. That way you will have hands on experience and a much better idea of what your next kite will be. Also try to hook up with other fliers in your area and try some of their kites...ask them why they like/dislike a type of kite and get their hands on experience as well.

Hope this helps your decision a bit.

Personally I'd stay away from the blades for now, They're great kites, but will hurt you eventually unless your 100% sure of your flying and the wind conditions.

There are several beginner/intermediate kites out there that would be suitable. I'm not that familiar with your current kite, but if it's roughly a 2.5m kite, then probably go with something around a 4m and moderate lift. It's the next size up that you'll be needing, then later on something in the 6.5 range. You really do need several kites to be powered up properly in all wind conditions.

I've heard that the beamers are ok, but have never flown one, I do know that both the Busters and Radsails are really stable freindly kites that will lift when you take them out in decent winds.

If you go from a 2.5m beginner kite to a 6.5m blade, you will most likely hurt yourself pretty good. Even a freindly kite like the buster can hurt if your not careful. One local guy just got beat up by a 5.5m Buster in under 20mph winds, Only good thing was that he had lots of room down wind of where he was flying, He's got some major bruises and is still picking the dirt out of his scrapes. If you ask him, he thought he was in total control until the moment he found himself flying head first 4-5ft off the groung superman style.

Hey man, I fly magnuson park quite a bit, this past week been there a bunch, Do you frequent there? i can't remember seeing much other than the few guys I know that guy there. Except for a guy that talked to me about prisms, although i think he worked there.. Anyway man lemme know when yer headed down there, theres a pretty good assortment of kites of the guys that i know fly there.
Oh ya, Im flying a 4m radsail right now, its nothin to right home about but yer welcome to try it out. I should be getting a new baby soon tho :evil:


Oh ya, and down at magnuson park, this past week we've been getting about 15-20 mph, Or at least thats the reading from the WSDOT traffic camera on 520 bridge, it gets bigger, but thats the steady lately .

Very good responses guys. A big Blade is probably not the safest choice.

However, I think there is something to having a kite that can hurt you. It's kind of a rush for an old guy like me (I'm 35).

If things get real bad quick, just let go and let the kite killers take over. Or, just let go of one side if on handles.

I just think a 4m will get boring in light summer winds. The larger kites are also slower and more predictable.

Just one other thing - what's wrong with growing into a big "expert" kite?

Just start off in low winds and work up the wind range.

Thanks for everyone's responses. I think the best thing I can do is meet people in the area and fly as many kites as I can to get a feel for their various styles.

Quote:

bigsteve: "Hey man, I fly magnuson park quite a bit, this past week been there a bunch, Do you frequent there?"

BigSteve: Drop me an e-mail when you get a chance. Let's see if we can set something up this weekend. Perhaps tomorrow (Friday) night? I meant what I said about lunch/dinner. Maybe I can bring you a pizza and you can watch me get my *ss kicked while I give your kites a try.
GaugerProductions@yahoo.com

Yup, Well you can try my radsail 4meter to yer hearts content, but that's all i've got at the time being (hehhhheeheheheheheh), as for the other guys, to be polite to them i can't promise you flying their kites or anything. I usually watch the wind by typing "520 bridge wind" into google and the first link that comes up has the traffic cam and a wind speed, I'm usually down to go if its 15+ mph.

take it easy man

BigSteve:
I could be down there around 7:00 or 7:30 this evening. I'll watch the wind meter on the 520 bridge but send me a message (e-mail or forum post) if you are heading out to the park. It's a 1/2 hour drive for me.
Thanks,
~Aaron
GaugerProductions@yahoo.com

Sounds good man, if theres anyway you can go earlier tho... it might be to your advantage, This week the wind has been prety flat then picks up around 330 and usually dies out by mid evening... just a heads up

BigSteve:
I moved my daughter's doctor appt. to earlier in the afternoon and my wife has expressed interest in coming along. She will be home from work by about 5:00 so we can head down any time after that.
Can you e-mail me your contact info so we can continue this topic offline? There is little need to drag everyone on the board through our kiting rendezvous plans. I’ll reply with my home / cell number to expedite any last minute changes this evening.
Thanks,
~Aaron
GaugerProductions@yahoo.com

Quote:

I’m 27, a pretty big guy at about 216 Lbs, and have a fair amount of upper body strength. I would obviously begin by flying it in 5-8 MPH winds- just enough to get it to inflate and maneuver correctly. I’ve also contacted local kite shops about 1:1 lessons to get me acquainted with my new kite (no success so far though). I just don’t want to endure the expense of buying a second beginner’s kite if it is unnecessary. I invite forum members to offer their recommendations or alternatives for kites that would suit my flying experience (or lack thereof), body weight, amount of wind in the area (usually 5-10 MPH), style of kiting (jumping, scudding, static flying), and that will continue to thrill me for years to come even as I get more experienced. Thank you everyone in advance for you time and suggestions! ~Aaron By the way, if anyone in the Seattle are wants to offer me a chance to fly their kite and maybe give me a few lessons, I'll buy you lunch / dinner in exchange. :tumble:

I have a demo 4.5m ProFoil I can send to you. No need for the dinner just buy or send the kite back.

Quote:

I have a demo 4.5m ProFoil I can send to you. No need for the dinner just buy or send the kite back.

TedsFoils:
:singing:That is a very generous offer and I would like to take you up on it.:singing:
Please send me an e-mail so we can work out the details. I would like to at least pay you for the shiping charges. Of couse if I like it, I'll buy it. If not, I will send it back to you in the same condition I received it. Thank you again for your offer! I look forward to hearing from you.
~Aaron
GaugerProductions@yahoo.com

Ted, whats this Profoil?? Have never heard of it. As for kites, the Blade 4 meter is a fine kite to start with if you keep your head about you and start in lower wind and work your way up. I wouldnt go up much larger in size that a 4m to start.

Scoop

Quote:

Originally posted by Scoopy Ted, whats this Profoil?? Have never heard of it. As for kites, the Blade 4 meter is a fine kite to start with if you keep your head about you and start in lower wind and work your way up. I wouldnt go up much larger in size that a 4m to start. Scoop

The New Profoil is a recreation of the original Quadtrac Profoil series made some years back. The Quadtrac was designed after I was forced to sell the rights of Quadrifoil. Instead of having a manufacture building, selling and paying me royalties I have decided to go direct. So I redesigned the kite and have it for sale on my website.

hrm, I dont know much about your kites. What would you say they are geared towards (are they lifty, more pully) what type of flying do they best suit?

Good question Steve. I was wondering the same thing.
~Aaron

Quote:

Originally posted by bigsteve hrm, I dont know much about your kites. What would you say they are geared towards (are they lifty, more pully) what type of flying do they best suit?

I am surprised I thought everyone has heard of my kite designs.

The ProFoil kites are designed for traction. They have good lift and good penetration both are great for pulling, and as with most of my foil kite designs they have great controllability.

Seems they need a History lesson Ted, I think i was lucky working for you and other kite Manufactors back when Stunt kites and power kites first took off, before they hit Europe, and stuff, seeing the first buggy at AKA nationals in Jacksonville back in 1990 i think, said i would neve get one , ha ha, 3 buggies later and all the Quads and Profoils and quadtracs i've gone through. I still think you had better quality then the others.. I rember the Steve Shapston Quad kite test flight straight up and straight down ripping it to shreds, and when we hooked yours up and crossed the lines out of control launch and crash and not a single tear, or broken line, those were big as pulling kites to

Hey Ted!

I still have one of your 3m Quad-Trac Pro-foils complete with the dark green "mini duffle bag"! A great little kite (although mine doesn't look as pretty it used to - no rips, just dirty and worn)

You're right the quality. That old - and no rips. And the zipper STILL works on the duffle bag!! (the one on my Radsail Bag broke the second time I used it!!)

Quote:

Originally posted by Bucky Hey Ted! I still have one of your 3m Quad-Trac Pro-foils complete with the dark green "mini duffle bag"! A great little kite (although mine doesn't look as pretty it used to - no rips, just dirty and worn) You're right the quality. That old - and no rips. And the zipper STILL works on the duffle bag!! (the one on my Radsail Bag broke the second time I used it!!)

Cool and that was not even the first generation. Those where made by PremierKites. The first Gen Profoils were made at Skynasaur before they changed the name to Mile High Kites before they went out of business. I still think the Quadrifoil kites that were made at the Kite Innovations factory in Spring were still better that those.

I will tell you this the new Profoil kites are made very well if not better. All reinforced ribs at the line attachments and has crossports with spectra bridles.

I just had a chance to fly Teds new PROFOIL, man, oh man.. I wieght around 300lbs, and the winds were around 5-7mph, we flew a 3.5m, a 4.5m, and a 5.5m.. i think i streched my arm again, i can scratch my ankles standing up. even in the low wind these kites had power, and control. the 4.5 and 5.5 in 5mph made me leave skid marks in the grass field. if a kite can lift my fat ass in low wind it has to be powerful, just think what it would do to a lighter flyer, next time i'll take a buggy and my harness... Maybe a small cooler too

Ted,

I would like to try out one of your Profoils - any chance I could get a demo?

Quote:

Originally posted by DaVinch Ted, I would like to try out one of your Profoils - any chance I could get a demo?

Sure I can send you a demo kite but the only one I have left is a 3.5m

OK Ted - I'll shoot you a U2U message later.

Joe

I want to take back my tough guy comment about a 4m kite getting boring.

I got totally "schooled" today by my Bego 400 in some strong winds. I was getting some great pendulum jumps in while flying static. Then, one got a little crazy for my taste - not sure, but it felt like at least 10' high and a long way down wind.:o

Once I landed and got the kite back down to the ground, I packed it up for the day! So yeah, these darn kites can bite.

Worst injury I've gotten was with a 3.5m kite, I was limping for weeks, safest kite is my largest one, in reasonable wind that is.