Okay I know this is an odd questions but given the broad geographical range of the PKF community I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about how I should deal with our local scenic railroad company deciding to dump 1300 new creosote laden railroad ties 170' from my bedroom windows.

In this heat and with this wind the fumes are killin' us.

I called DES and they said they have no authority as the fumes aren't from a process or machine. The suggested I contact the town health enforcement guy. The problem is that there's a good chance that he is friends with the guy who owns the railroad. Small town good 'ol boys network.

I've owned this house for 15yrs and never had a problem.

And to top it all off it is on state land, no railroad land. So I don't know if it's the state or the railroad that I have to deal with.

It's a PITA. If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to hear 'em

Thanks in advance.

You might be forced to go public to get a response and action. I can imagine the smell from a stack of fresh crossties like that. The faint aroma of creosote is somehow pleasing, but a pile of hot fresh ones upwind on a hot day might be too much.

Just toss a lit match and break-out some hot dogs:evil: Just kidding......

dept. of health...you are in respiratory distress!

+1 for the discarded match. lol

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Originally posted by Feyd Okay I know this is an odd questions but given the broad geographical range of the PKF community I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about how I should deal with our local scenic railroad company deciding to dump 1300 new creosote laden railroad ties 170' from my bedroom windows.

A little clarification, please.....

Are these new railroad ties waiting to be installed or are they old ties that have beem "dumped" on some open land until they get around to moving/disposing of them?

Are they located somewhere where rain runoff will cause seepage into the the public drinking supply or general water table?

It's probably going to be an uphill battle.

The folks in the Merrimack River area have been having similar problems like this for a very long time.

NJ banned creosote treated lumber about 5 years ago.... with the notable exceptions of railways and utilities... surprise, surprise.

There are alternative railroad ties, which are cheaper in the long run, but probably have a larger initial outlay.

Creosote treated lumber has been outlawed in a lot of other countries.... sadly we lag behind.

I think your best bet is try to snag the attention of the local news anchor that does human interest and consumer affair stories.

ATB,
Sam

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I think your best bet is try to snag the attention of the local news anchor that does human interest and consumer affair stories. ATB, Sam

Have to agree here with Sam. There's nothing like a local health concern to get a good investigative reporter salivating.

I think you're right Sam. We are on town water so I can't pull the ground water contamination card.

They are 1350 brand new ties and about 400 old ties. The new ones are cribbed and due west of my house by about 170' and due east about 120' due east of a preschool playground.

Down in Littleton Mass. they had a similar situation but on a much bigger scale. I'm going to research that a bit and see what thier course of action was. My first step will probably be to contact the railroad and see if they can be reasonable. I don't care that the ties are there if they wrap 'em up and keep 'em from off gassing.

I think the media is a good option. Also I'm going to have to contact a land attorney as I bet this affects my land value. I think I have the option to file a nuisance grievence but again I'm going to have to look into it.

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Originally posted by Cheddarhead Just toss a lit match and break-out some hot dogs:evil: Just kidding......

Was my thought also, about the hotdogs. They are quite flammable, could burn for weeks.

Unfortunately they the stuff that comes off when they burn is worse to inhale than just the off gassing. And they are pretty close to the homestead and the wind blows right towards the house.

I'm going to wait until the nieghbor next door comes back from Florida. They probably aren't aware of the problem because the sit all buttoned up in the house with the AC on. But when they go to use the pool that may change.

He's the fire chief so maybe that will work towards our advantage.

FWIW:

"When creosote is inhaled or ingested it can lead to breathing issues. Difficulty breathing or the inability to breathe deeply may result from overexposure to the toxin. Shortness of breath is likely to occur as well."

"Creosote has been linked to an array of short- and long-term health effects. Short-term effects of creosote exposure include: chemical burns of the mouth, eyes, throat, or stomach, convulsions, confusion, and respiratory tract irritation. Long-term consequences of creosote exposure include:

• Liver problems
  
• Kidney problems
  
• Skin cancer
  
• Scrotum cancer

The health effects of creosote exposure tend to vary according to duration and amount of exposure. However, even low levels of exposure over extended period of time have been associated with serious, long-term health effects. "

"Under the Federal Employers Liability Act (FELA), rail workers who have suffered injury because of creosote health hazards on the job hold their employers liable for damages. If you are a railroad employee who has suffered adverse health effects that you suspect are creosote exposure, you should know that you have legal rights."

Not a lawyer and haven't even played one on TV, but it seems that if the ties have or will be there for a undisclosed period of time, the people responsible have in effect put you in the same environment as railroad workers, and should bear some culpabilitly for the situation.

If you or any of your family members has ashtma, emphysema, COPD, or some other pulmonary condition that was exacerbated by the proximity of the storage cache of railroad ties, it would pretty much tie a big ribbon on the whole situation.

ATB,
Sam

P.S. You might find this of interest: http://www.screamwithme.org/ (about a family's nightmare due to creosote exposure).

The screamwithme.org read was scary, but also confusing. Creosote as a wood preservative comes from the distillation of coal tar, CCA (chromium copper arsenate) also a wood preservative, and also toxic, but not the same as creosote. None the less, why use your "backyard" as a storage area? Doesn't the scenic railroad have a better place to store what amounts to several tons of hazardous materials? Industry must follow OSHA's rules regarding the storage/handling of hazardous materials, I don't see why the railroad should be any different.

Scrotum Cancer??????? Hell, I'd move tomorrow!

Get them to move em before they forget about them. My parents zoo is alongside a set of tracks. The railroad left a pile of ties (500ish) in the ditch beside our house 10 years ago. 3 years later my dad called to see when they would move them out. They said that they should have been moved already. My dad asked if he could take them for fence perimeter and of course it was yes. If he hadn't called they would still be there.

I had to make a phone call to get the citation because I don’t know the air quality stuff well.

Here is the PA regulation that would apply to your situation. Offsite malodor 123.31 (b)
http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/025/chapter123/s123.31.htm...

Much of the state regulations are based on the Federal regs so I imagine that your state will have something very similar. But, as I discussed with our local compliance officer, there is no guarantee of action without investigating the complaint. Read this as selective enforcement.

The only two agencies that seem to have the power to move Environmental Protection into action were the Department of Health and the EPA. I would call them all.

Hope you are able to get it resolved.

Thanks Labrat, this could be helpful. Yesterday the wind was out of the east, couldn't smell a single tie but that meant it was blowing all over the kids in the playground.

Lame.

The fastest way to get a responce is to teach your dog to faint on command. Bring him out while people are around and have him faint and call PETA. Not my type of group but man even the RailRoad won't want to get them wound up.
Seriously I think Sam and Labrat have your answer. And calling your local news group and using the playground issue will be stronger than your own house.
Best of luck with this.