I'm looking for a new, more challenging kite. I have been flying a 2m hornet, 4.1 m twister 2, and a 6m pansch ace. None of these are mine, unfortunately...
Im hoping for something sorta right in the middle of all of these. Enough lift for some small jumps, enough control for fun static flying. Which has more vertical lift, core or viper s? I found the twister kinda unwieldy, the hornet too mellow. Which will have the wider range of wind conditions? I'll prob be able to keep the ace for a while, I like it in low wind. I may get a board or a buggy, but the kite seems more important at this point.
Thanks!!

Or feel free to recommend something else!!
Thanks!

I might be wrong since I have never flown one but Viper S is not supposed to have much lift as it is designed as a buggy engine, whereas the core is designed as an allaround kite that does have lifting ability.

I fly a 5m core and it definitely has lift in it,... not like twister, but it does have lift. I used to have a twister and you are right it can be unwieldy, and someone here was nice enough to trade it for the core.

Core is a great buggy engine, and I see guys use it a lot on the ATB. I like the Core because i feel like I can control it well enough to use it in the buggy, and if I decide to jump with it, I can. I really want some vipers for the bug but I don't have the money now.

I can't attest to my own experience with viper as I've never flown one, but all the guys on here say it is an awesome buggy engine, and all the other info I read says it has little to no lift. Both are being discontinued by Peter Lynn, so you'll need to decide soon. For what you are saying you want out of the kite though, I would vote for the Core.

Big Mike has both on sale right now I think @ bigmikeskites.com

Vipers are great for a buggy or board on hard surface , they are stable and have sharp accurate controll, fast turning and fast speeds. 4 kids 100-140# fly mine static all the time , in a good wind ripping the kite thru the wind window they do jump with them but its more like watching jumping beans or popcorn, kind of pop up and down in quick jerky motions. There is no easy up and glide down like you would get with a larger depower. If you are on a buggy or board they are a kite you may keep forever.

I've not been in the sport very long but I'll give you a few observations since it hasn't been all that long since I was in your shoes.
1) My first kite was a Hornet 2M, my second was a Twister IIR 5.6M, I weigh 125 lbs. Bought both of these kites new. For the record, all kites are lifty in the right conditions and by intentional piloting for lift/jumps. Some are just designed specifically for lift as jumping kites like the Twister. My 5M Blurr for instance has a ton of lift when flown aggressively. The important thing for jumping as I and others have experienced is float, and float is more related to the size of kite than than anything else.
2) I thought I wanted to do "small" jumps too right after getting into the sport. With a fixed bridle kite it's not easy as a newbie to select the kind of jump you want to do. A "small" jump can easily become much more than was planned. The issue here then is the float of the kite. To "safely" jump requires a much larger kite than most newbies are ready for. A 4.1M Twister really does not have enough float and even "small" jumps will have pretty jarring landings which are hard on knees/ankles. I don't know how much you weigh but I think you can see what I'm getting at here. I'm not the safety police but jumping is best done with a depower kite, or if not that, a larger fixed bridle kite which tend to be a real handful for beginners. I see you have flown a 6M kite so I'm sure you will be fine but I think you really need to think about how much jumping you really want to do as opposed to having fun static flying or buggying/ATB'ing. The reason I say this is because I have found my favorite kites that I own are the ones with the absolute most power, yet are really responsive. I enjoy kites that turn fast and really respond to brake input. This is why while I enjoy my Twister when I feel the conditions are safe, it is not my favorite kite because it's not very responsive to brake line input and as such does not turn very fast and given it's lift, I must always be on my toes with this kite.
3) If I had to do it all over again the Viper S would have been my second kite purchase and I may have never even gotten a Twister. Basically I think you need to consider how much you want to spend on a new kite vs. buying a used one off this site. Great deals right now on Viper S and Core, if you can afford the Core and want to buy new then yes, that's the one you want. The Viper S may be a slightly better value for the $, but as stated above Core may be a little more versatile. Bottom line I think you should get the most advanced medium aspect ratio kite you can handle/afford, i.e. a kite that is not considered a beginner kite but is fast and very responsive while carefully considering what size will best fit most of your wind conditions and desire to do some "small" jumping. My winds are not very good meaning for me my 5M Blurr is my go to kite and yes given my size I can easily jump with it even though it's designed as a "puller." The PL Reactors are very nice kites too, I would talk to RonH, he is selling his 5.5M Reactor II, I wish I would have bought it along with the 8.3 I bought from him. So what I'm saying is it's up to you, Core, Viper S, ect. But don't rule out saving some $ buying a used kite. His Reactor II is a screamin' hot deal! Sorry for being so long winded, just trying to prevent you from some of the mistakes I made early on...

Annieo, I must say and tip my hat to ya. Your insight and advice is most impressive even for someone with 5x your experience. Great to have ya aboard.

Thanks for all the great advice y'all! I definitely appreciate all the good safety advice. Obviously there is a risk with any activity like this. I didn't see any kites of the size / type I'm looking for used, if anyone has a link, please share. Also haven't seen them really on sale, maybe 10% off retail, but not mOre. I may not know all the best spots to look, so if any of y'all can help with that, that'd be cool. I see how the bigger 6m kite sets me down more gently than the 4.1. Just not feeling the right "happy medium" I'm looking for in any of the kites i have been flying. Obviously all kites are lofty and can pull a jumper. It is alsO obvious that all kites are designed with varying degrees of upwind performance. Some just hover gently, while others really pull upward. ThIs is what I'm asking about. I guess maybe there is some other term other than lift. What do y'all call it?
And to go back to the beginning, which has more of this upwards pulling force, core or viper?
Thanks again!!

The Viper is designed more for the buggy with minimal lift characteristics. The Core is a freestyle type kite that is designed for all-around flying. I would say the Core has a little more lift than the Viper, but nowhere near the Twister. If you are looking for lift, I would suggest the Twister over both of the ones you have mentioned.

Cool! What has the next most lift after the twister?
Thanks!

For the ultimate in lift, depower would be the way to go. Not only do depowerable kites have much more lift, they also have more float and are overall safer to jump with.





**Let it be known that I don't recommend static jumping with kites. It is a very dangerous stunt and can cause serious injury. Make sure you use common sense with weather conditions and gear. Also make sure to fully protect yourself with helmet, body armor, pads, clothes, boots, pillows and anything else you can use/think of to minimize injury.

Quote:

Originally posted by Turtlejon What has the next most lift after the twister?

Pansh Ace or a Blade?

Good to know, thanks!
Decided to go with the core, coming from the netherlands soon!!