Feyd is ignoring me on FB :P and foilzone is on the go-slow so ...

I find myself wanting a slightly smaller kite than the 21 and a slightly larger kite than the 15 for when the wind drops and gusts on the same day - 21 would be nasty in the punchy gusts but the 15 isn't enough for fun in the lulls ...

Speed3 19 would be fine but I find myself interested in the Psycho4 19 ... esp. the claims of fast turning speed and violent launches :D

Whaddyall reckon?

You want to trade straight across, my 19m 2.5 for your 21m 3? I accept. U2U me the details and we will work it out.

No I'm keeping the 21, fo sho! Nice try though

I would vote p4 19, you will enjoy the extra flavor in the quiver more than you would enjoy yet another speed3!

p4... get aggressive!

Gonna grab the P4 ...

My only concern would be that the P4 would not have the same amount of power as the S3. The psycho4s are a little fatter, and it has been generally noted that they are not good performers in light wind. I have seen people use them, but not in the wind ranges that you would expect. I have flown some of the smaller P4s (12,10,8), and the only thing I can say is that you really have to build up apparent wind before these kites really hit their power.

I recall a day when I was riding my 12 Outlaw (on snow) feeling very overpowered. I did not think it was enough wind for my 8m Outlaw (at the time) and switched to the 10 P4 and was so severly underpowered that I had to move up to the 12. Maybe the larger side performs better, and maybe this is what you are looking for. This was just my experience with the kite. Maybe I was doing something wrong...

I would suggest trying it out in the conditions you would expect to use it, but I know you are kind of limited in that respect. I hope this works out for you. Best of luck.

That's actually what I'm counting on - I want it to divide the gap between the 21 and the 15, so being a bit gutless for a 19 is fine
Heard they like apparent wind and being worked ...

If not - it'll be up for sale :D

I hear the larger P4s are not Light Wind wings. If you are going 19, you should probably go SA.
I do not know if they make a non SA 19P4.

Well.. if yer willing to drop the dough, go for it.
Good test to see what kind of range you feel it has. I'd be curious to see how it compares to the S3 15m Deluxe, regardless of what material you get it with.

HEY! I sent you a FB message asking you to clarify your question because your rat fruit speak apparently confused me to no end.

It looks like you've settled on the P4 19m (dlx I hope) and I think you're gonna freakin love it. So there.

I base that on the fact that on the ice, I was able to beat a guy 40lbs lighter and riding a 21m Speed 3DLX with the 19m P4 dlx and it was all because of turn rate. She kicks a$$ in light winds.

So there!

You're only confused cos you read a message I sent months ago and mixed them all up :D serves you right for being a lazy pen pal. Enjoy the t-shirt

Apparently, there was only ever a DLX 19 ...? The price is right - we'll see!

... planted a male & female kiwifruit vine in the garden at the new house too - will be a while before we get fruit though

The only issue I have heard is that the larger than 12m psycho4s with tip tuck like crazy and can make for an unpleasant ride. I love my 8m though it's a sick kite. one of the best kites I own.

Hmmm interesting. I've not had a problem with tuck on ours. Except maybe if I launch it underinflated then intitially a bit until internal pressure maxes out.

My stupid FB seems to be very random as far as what it alerts me too or not. It's probably a setting of some sort but I'm too damn lazy to figure it out. I probably have you blocked Kami, for my own safety no doubt.

I had no idea rat fruit grew on a vine. :duh: How long does it take those things to bear fruit?

Word on tip-tuck was shrunken ring lines, IIRC ...

Dunno ... they're just babies at the moment but the old vine would grow like a crazy thing! A couple of meters per season. So probably a couple of years

Actually, tonight would have been a perfect occasion for a P4 19 ... when I got to the lake, I thought I had arrived as the wind was dying off - as forecast. So I launched the 21 and discovered I was nicely powered on my smallest board ... then the wind picked up whee!

I've got both the 15 s3 dlx and the SA P4 19 and they are quite a nice pair. There is definitely overlap but it's nice to have the choice. I love my p4 19 and haven't experienced any tip tucking. Good turn rate and with a big board I can go in 6+ knots. The only issue I had with it was the fifth line needed an extension to keep the trailing edge from puckering.

S3 has float, the P4 has lift / air time

P4 ... my vote for the kite loops.

There is one on ikitesurf posted today.

Not the one I just paid for, I hope

Oh apparently it came with a 50cm bar so there's some kind of 60cm HQ bar on there ... my OCD is twitching already :o

I want to change my bar. I hate the FS bar.

If there is ever a kite that needs a stopper ball it's the P4. A little longer bar and a stopper and I'll be happy.

I'm with Kitedog, damn 5th line is a tad short on ours and needs an extension. I'm gonna take care of that right now.

Feyd,
I took the 5th line off my pulse 2's and converted them to front Line safety. I didn't like the 5th line snagging on twigs and stuff.
Just a thought!

Kami,
Let us know how you like the 19 P4. I'm thinking of one for light wind wave ridding.
BTW, the wife and I ended up in Guatemala instead of Japan! Long story, but great trip. Sorry we couldn't hook up for that beer!

Wondered where you got to! Guatemala ... quite the opposite direction

I like the FSer bar just fine - stopper would be an easy mod too, lazy bones :D
Don't like the FDS either, always fiddly bloody things ... might go to mini-5th too.

Well I got the P4 on Saturday - it's a regular cloth jobbie ... weighs more than the 21 :o

The kite itself looks fine - canopy is in nice condition. A couple of bridle lines need replacing - wasn't told about that.

The HQ bar looked like a nightmare when I unpacked it and lived up to its appearance - can't even fly the kite with it it's way over-sheeted, so even with the front lines on the closest knots :o and fully trimmed, it won't fly without me hauling on the center lines. The FDS is miles too short - unless I wanted to play a one-string banjo.
So it's utterly useless.

The FSer bar that I thought could be return to an operating condition is missing the plastic line separater (wasn't told that either) so it's useless too.

I've emailed the store that sold it, we'll see what they have to say. We are not amused. If I'd known all this, I wouldn't have bothered!!! :ticking:

Uhggg. I dunno if the regular cloth is gonna do what you want it to do, never flew it in regular cloth but I assume that it becomes more of a "Fat kid's" kite.

I'm not sure what plastic line separator you're refering to. The little black bit that untwists the lines when you push the bar out?

My S3 12 is regular cloth and it's heavy too it's fine once it's in the air ... we'll see! Gotta get it flying first :-/ hoping it'll be good for 15 to 20 knots and the small board :D

Yeah that little thing in the hole where the depower line goes. The seller has agreed to refund me $100 toward a new bar ... John from powerzonekitesports does a mod that's apparently pretty hot for $100 but add in shipping ...

I wonder if I could do something myself ...?

P4 , is the faster turning unit?

The P4 is pretty snappy IMO. My little plastic thingy broke and I just chucked it and kept using the bar as is. I'm not getting tons of twists in the lines when I fly th 19m so it hasn't been an issue.

That pin that remains is looking pretty gnarly though - I bet it'd eat the depower rope ...

could you wrap the pin with electrical tape?

I'm curious to see how you like the 19. You let go of a p4 15 not so long ago didn't you?