On my recent trip to jekyll island, I came across a guy trying to launch a 6m lei, he obviously had no clue as to what he was doing. Case in point - 1. he was trying to self launch without a harness, when i rode up i was friendly but once realizing that he was dangerous and my limited experience with lei's i mentioned he needed a harness to fly the kite correctly. (this was at kite beach which at the time was somewhat crowded and to his benefit he had moved away from all of the other people on the beach, wind was maybe 10 mph and he was trying to launch a 6m lei) after mentioning the harness i rode back down the beach and returned 10 minutes later and he had attempted to put on his harness- this is scary.... he had a seat harness and he had put it on upside down and put the leg loops over his shoulders so hook was upside down along with the harness. Because of the crowds and it was my last day before leaving i recommended that he get some help/ instruction before he hurt himself or someone else and left to avoid being associated with him. What would you have done? now a couple of days later and back home- i am not sure i did the right thing..... I think the best thing to have done to protect our right to fly would have been to spend maybe a 1/2 hr with him to help him better understand the risks and try to get him to put the kite away till he got some help.

advise him to stay away from the crowds! advise instruction/or alternate safer gear.

suggest he stop, til proper knowledge obtained, at least to operate it safely.

how was it leashed ?

if it was depowered it can be flown without a harness, but sounds like that was unlikely.

depending on disposition, and with SAFE level of distance . advise the liability he has with the device in the public domain to himself and the public...then let the elements begin their lesson.

/facepalm

How do you put a seat harness on wrong? Yea he definitely needed to look for some help, maybe offer him lessons? Pull out a business card or something lol. But he should just pack up and go do some research first.

What kite were you flyin?

I'm tossed up between 1 and 2. He obviously had no business doing what he was doing. Scott you wear a seat harness don't you? Did he look at yours at all? I feel this guy was a major hazard with out lessons.

Omni I was flying my 19m venom with a seat harness and while I offered some tips and tried to give him some tips like put it done and get lessons I was not willing at that time to put my kite down and give him lessons. Really just feel like I should have done more than I did but not sure he was really receptive
Scott

Funny you brought this up, I must have run into the same guy last weekend before I left for home.

This kid was with a girl friend(?) and had a board along with the kite and harness. He was flying the 2 line trainer with a piece of rope that tied the bar to his harness, all the while the girl was taking pictures.
Anyways, I stopped and asked how things were going and after a bit of work to understand what he was doing and his knowledge of kiteboarding, I spent about 1/2 hour showing him a few things and talking his ear off with way to much info about kites, boards, and everything else along with "This is a NAPKA event and you are not registered" talk. She got worried that he was in over his head and they both agreed to get with one of his friends who does this stuff, so he could learn.

I have found that when I offer to help for a bit with what ever is needed it helps to ease the pride issue of the person and eases my fear of reading about a newbie in the paper.

I would suggest to just talk about him and focus on what he is trying to do and help as much as he will allow. Then stick around to call 911 if need be, or not. I can sleep at night knowing I did as much as he would let me do to help.

im still trying to imagine what it looks like to put a seat harness on through your arms!! lol.

its not your job to look after stupid people and youre under no obligation to give the guy any free tuition.

you need to add some categories????

Stop and take the kite away from him.
Offer lessons at a safer place and time..
take video and post on youtube...
call the police on behalf of the kite (assult and abuse).... :wee:

Under the circumstances, you probably made the right choice. Other than taking 20 minutes and helping the guy figure things out and helping to explain just what he was in for, not much else you could have done. I would have probably made an effort to try and teach him for a few. Teach him a little about the kite and harness, and like Jeff, talk way more about kites than he probably wanted to hear. It's a hard decision to make, and some people are not willing to stop and listen before they get hurt, after all " I just watched the video on Youtube, I will be alright"

Would hope that I'd stop and try to help him if he was
willing to listen!
But it just depend on how he reacted too what I was telling him?

:D you can put seat harnesses on like a back-pack, with the spreader bar to the front and under your chin. I carry mine to the beach like that sometimes...

Keep him away from the public, is probably the best you can do for him and us!

I think I would have talked into putting down that confounded De-power, and put something in his hands he could fly,like a small PKD Buster!

@ Scott DUDE! You gotta get pics of things like that. That must have been hilarious!
And ,what Alisdair said too. If you don't want help,I'm getting outta the way...:dunno:

Yes..a pic would have been hilarious.....

Quote:

I think the best thing to have done to protect our right to fly would have been to spend maybe a 1/2 hr with him to help him better understand the risks and try to get him to put the kite away till he got some help.

..you are probably right. Insuring right to fly... Plus his and everyone's safety...is always best than ignoring.

But you will not always be there to catch the next Bozo who will surely come along....though any injury you can help prevent does make an impact.

Maybe an alternative is just a 5 minute terse warning/explnation to put the kite down before he kills someone because 'you have no idea what you are doing'-expressed in the most sympathetic way:ticking:.:ticking:

It's a tough call. In a perfect world I feel it's everyone's responsibility to know as much as they can about something, ANYTHING, before trying it. If they don't and they get wrecked then it's probably thier own fault. But this isn't a perfect world.

My main concern is that in thier ignorance/arrogance or stupidity that they either injure a bystander or cause property damage and and best send up a ton of red flags and invite scrutiny to the sport and at worst get your area shut down. Not to say that it's just guys like this that get areas shut down. We've lost areas here because of a skilled kiter that moved here and pi$$ed landowners off. Great flier, poor judgement.

I think you did the best you could do under the circumstances. Keeping him away from everyone and reducing the risk of bystander injury is your best move. Maybe you could have given him some instruction but in the land of liabilty maybe you'd be opening yourself up to trouble if something went wrong.

I've run into similar situations and for me the key is to be friendly and supportive. Make them feel as though they don't need to be defensive and get them to WANT to listen to your advice. Give them some basic help without too much detail and make it clear (in a nice way) that they run the risk of ruining the area for other kiters if they mess up. Let them know, without seeming arrogant or #@%$#!y, that you know something about kiting and are willing to share that knowledge. Sometimes I open with the fact that I'm an instructor and ask them if they would like some quick tips to make things easier and more fun. I'm not talking about a full clinic or anything but just simple stuff. Like how to put a harness on hehehehe.:duh:

Let 'em know about resources for info like this forum. Reccomend they take a lesson, not because they suck and are a danger but because it shortens the learning curve. It's fun and it frees the rider up sooner to having more fun on thier kite than they would fighting with it because they don't know what they're doing. I know a lot of people are self taught (myself included) and don't see the value of a lesson but with more and more people out there trying to teach themselves the likelyhood of trouble is going up. 10 yrs ago nobody noticed when I was out thrashing around on the ice and now, I see people semi-regularly on weekends that are from out of town and don't have a clue what they're doing with a kite.

Anyway I think you did a good job. I guess I would pick options 1 AND 2 as they both seem to work hand in hand.

It doesn't take lessons to figure out how to wear a seat harness! I think this guy has more problems than a simple lack of experience! There is enough info available online etc to manage the basics. who doesn't know how to use Google?

I might offer to help if I didn't already have my own kite in the air but i doubt it. If someone came up and asked politely for help it would be different. Sure I would help them out.

I ran into a similar situation last summer, here on L.Ontario. I offered help, but was pretty much ignored. You probably did all you could. Some folks aren't going to listen, no matter how nice you are. I was lucky, the guys that didn't know what they were doing pretty much gave up after not getting the kite to launch, after 1/2 hr of trying.

I would definitely help the guy and probably, to my own eventual disappointment, sacrifice my session to create a new fanatic. In the end it is worth it to me even if my session was crap.

If the guy wasn't receptive and/or teachable, I would then take efforts to get the guy to stop flying. Even if that meant getting assertive and pissing the guy off.

If he keeps flying and gets yarded into the trees or rocks, my conscience would be clear. Darwinian theory takes precedent in this situation.

Quote:

Originally posted by thanson2001ok I would definitely help the guy and probably, to my own eventual disappointment, sacrifice my session to create a new fanatic. In the end it is worth it to me even if my session was crap. If the guy wasn't receptive and/or teachable, I would then take efforts to get the guy to stop flying. Even if that meant getting assertive and pissing the guy off. If he keeps flying and gets yarded into the trees or rocks, my conscience would be clear. Darwinian theory takes precedent in this situation.

+1for this option.I am constantly teaching people to fly. if they are unwilling to listen I sit back and laugh. when they get frustrated show off a little, dont get stupid then, repeat offer to teach them.

Tough call but I can tell you I have run into this many times and I park my kite and line them out in the best possible way even if it takes a couple hours, A 6 in those winds really isn't going to hurt anybody and I would help him go in the right direction for the sake of kiting overall.

I think I might add that kiters are few and far between and we must help each other when we see someone struggling or in trouble or anyone who has a desire to enter the sport.

I guess the bottom line is to offer help. Maybe not in the interest of protecting the individual but protecting kiting and kiting areas. Do I want to see people get hurt? No. But people are responsible for thier own skins and if they get smacked, hopefully no too bad, that's how it goes.

I've seen some people who you could tell had no business throwing a kite in the air but fortunately COULDN'T get it airborn and gave up. Maybe kiting is naturally self filtering.

I'm in the stop and offer the help camp. I'll confess I haven't always done this when I should, but I know I should. I hate when business derails pleasure, but this is important business. It's an investment in the future of my fun.

I look at it this way. I'll stop to talk to anyone that expresses interest whether I think they'll fly someday or not. It's good P.R. This wanna-be-flier already expressed his interest by getting some gear and going to the beach. He's on the cusp of joining the community or damaging it. I'll give the guy an hour if I can cajole him into accepting some guidance. I'll give him more if he shows he can listen.

Philip

Well said Philip.