I am new to power kiting and was looking at a site called BestKiteBoarding.com

I told them my story and the said to go with the 20m Waroo as my first kite. I want to use it for landboarding and maybe buggy. I have experience with stunt kits and have no problems there.

I want to start with just the kite then move into a vehichle of some sort. Winds in my area are around 15 - 20 mph.

Any help would be appreciated,

Thanks,

Chad

Chad,
I REALLY wouldn't take that advice for what you're looking for. A 20m waroo on land will not only cost you if you crash it, but it may cost you more along the lines of a hospital visit if you haven't ever flown a power kite. Not knowing your weight, how quickly you catch onto things and how willing you are to get beat up..I'd have to suggest a smaller foil like a Beamer 2m or 3.5m. The beamers are great beginner kites to introduce you to the power, how to work the kite in the window and even to step up into something larger. On higher wind days you'll be able to do some boarding or even buggying with that kite, and they're great for the snow as well. Probably half or maybe even a quarter of what you'll spend on the waroo. Get use to that though then when you decide if you want to buggy or if you want to board, you'll be looking for a kite specifically for those things. Also pending on what style of both you want to do..freestyle (you may want a more lifty kite) or if you're looking for speed.

Where abouts do you live if you don't mind me asking.?.
~Joe

20 meters?:puzzled: in 15-20 mph winds ?:puzzled: I would not trust that site...... you should start out small like maybe 5.0-6.0 meters max..... in 15-20 mph a 3.5meter kite will provide more than enogh power

I live in Southern California.

I live close to a soccer field, actually more like 2 full size soccer fields. I was goin to go there to learn complete control of the kite first. Once I had that down I was going to go to Ventura Beach area and do the same thing (wind is a tad stronger there). After that then I wanted to purchase some sort of land vehicle.

I am 5'10" and about 260lbs. Another reason I am thinking of getting into this sport.......lose weight and get more active.

Wind speed right now is 9 - 10mph at the soccer field (which is empty nearly all the time)

Ventura is actually showing only 7 - 9mph right now.

The soccer field is usually no more than 10mph unless the Santa Ana's are rolling in.

I was thiniking of going with the Blade, the size above the 4.9m

Chad

I'm still new to this, but I've already learned enough to know those guys aren't doing you any favors...

First of all, that's way too big for your first kite, at least for a kite designed for use on land.

Secondly, speaking of "use on land", you'll note that the 20m Waroo is a leading edge inflatable (hope I've got the term correct, but in any case you blow up the leading edge like an air mattress...)

That's handy for use on water but care to guess what happens to that inflated edge when it meets the Soccer field in a dive? Here's a hint: >>POP!<<

I'd suggest you listen to the folks on this site instead...

Thats what I was thinking just from what I have learned here.

So what do you think would be a good setup to last me a while?

I was thinking of the new Blade 4.9 or 6.5 due to my larger size.

I noticed that http://www.kiteworld.co.uk sells a landboard combo with the Blade. Do you think that would be a good combo purchase?

Thanks,

Chad

Quote:

Originally posted by chadvicki Thats what I was thinking just from what I have learned here. So what do you think would be a good setup to last me a while?

I'm still too new to give you any real reccommendations, somebody else will have to chime in there. I'm here to learn myself.

I will say this, without exception, every experienced kiter I've talked to has suggested starting small, say in the 3 range, and then moving up to a 5 or 6. The folks here in the forums, both kite shops I visited, and people on the beach flying foils. They all said about the same thing. "You'll need a 5 or 6 to get good air, but if you buy one as your first kite, you'll get hurt or maybe worse..."

Yes, it means buying two kites. But enough folks have told me horror stories about "Oh, I can handle a 5..." that I'm going to definitely start with something smaller.

Which one will you be getting? Can you transfer bars from one kite to another?

I have a Premier Kites Trick and Track Stunt kite that can generate about 150 lbs of pull and I can fly it with no problem. It was fun for a while but now is kind of boring.

Chad

Chad..
Shame I didn't know you were in the area til now. My brother lives in Laguna Hills and I was just recently out there visiting him. Could've let you try out my little devil 4.5m. My brother tried it on the beach and ended up in the ocean with it ..haha.

If you have some experience with stunt kites you'll be able to figure the 4 line kite out a bit easier. It still helps if someone is there to show you though, as it can be a bit confusing. And in the mist of the confusion, if wind catches the kite it can bruise you up quite a bit. Even though you weigh 260 a "power kite" of any size can give you a run for your money and even hurt you.

I don't think that a 4.5 is out of the question. A 5m to start may be pushing it in the winds you're talking about. If you go out and the winds are pretty consistant in the range you're speaking, you're going to get really tired really fast using a larger kite...which means less time actually learning to fly and more time getting frustrated and beaten up. Smaller kites help build technique so that you can landboard, kitesurf or buggy easier. Like a stepping stone.

A 4.5 or even a beamer 3.6 in those kinds of winds, if the sand conditions are right you should be able to still get pulled on the beach with it. No you won't be getting air or cruising down the beach at top speeds, but you can still have fun at that size and be pretty safe doing it.

A lot of people in this sport see it on tv (like myself), think how tough can that be and buy a kite (typically a large one that they find on ebay or something). Then when they get the kite out in the wind they're either so frustrated trying to figure it out or they get completely beaten up and give up almost right away. Spare yourself the frustration...don't jump too fast, get the knowledge and experience, build yourself up (you'll loose the weight ..trust me!) and then move up in kite size after that.

You'll probably end up keeping your first kite, and if not you'll probably get another just a size or two larger that you end up keeping. Most people on here have smaller kites for higher wind days and larger kites for less wind days.

Also, kiting is pretty big where you live. So if you are at the beach flying or at the soccer field possibly you may find others that kite stopping by to give you pointers and help you out as well. Take in as much of that help as you can, ask questions and you'll move along quickly, and progress in sizes of your kites as well.

To answer your question about bars. Most 4 line bars can be used on any 4 line kite. The exception is depowerable kites (don't worry about those at the moment). :D

Bob was correct about the LEI's too. They have inflateable struts and an inflateable leading edge making them easy for water relaunch. They aren't so bad using on the beach or in the snow either, but those surfaces are a lot more forgiving then a soccer field. Like bob said..one hard nose dive and you'll be replacing bladders which can get spendy.
~Joe

Code:

That would have been cool to actually see one in action and talk to someone.

What is depower for exactly? And should I get a harness?

What about the Blade 4.9m

Is it better to go with bars or handles?

Thanks for your help,

Chad

Chad,
I haven't used either the blade nor the bullet before. A lot of people on this site have them though and it would definitely be in your favor to ask about both of those before purchasing. From what I've read, one of those tends to be more lifty then the other.

As for the handles vs. bar..there are a lot of past threads about this. It all basically leads to personal preference. You have more control over the kite with handles then you do a bar. A lot of people that buggy tend to use handles as well. A lot of landboarders tend to do more freestyle stuff, so they use the bars. If you intend on getting in the water eventually then a bar may be a possibility as well, or you could start on a bar and purchase handles seperately.

For myself, I started on handles and then bought a bar seperately. You can do the same if you decide that you would like to try the other option as well. I think having more control when first starting is very helpful though and helps you understand the basics a bit quicker. Some kites also tend not to react as quickly on a bar, so you're always planning ahead for your next move in which you're going to direct the kite.

Hope this helps a bit. Look at some of the past threads for that same topic..it should be helpful reading.
~Joe

posted on 5-21-2005 at 10:19 AM originally.

To give a bit more perspective on the handles/bar issue that keeps cropping up.

To reiterate: It's the kite not the steering that matters.
Learn the kite.
Any steerable kite.

All the skills translate between traction sports.


Please allow me to offer my ideas on handles and bars...
Two sciences here: The science of marketing and the science of aerodynamics.
Bars are marketable because they help the consumer think there isn't much to learn and a gimmick will protect them.
Bars limit control - To the length of the bar.
Bars are familiar - To windsurfers and wakeboarders where most new kiteboarders are coming from.

On the water, one goes out overpowered.
Getting the rider up out of the water and onto plane on a board that isn't very bouyant requires a lot of power.
Maintaining that plane doesn't.

Maneuverabilty slows the kite and reduces power, putting the rider down in the water, so the limited steering of a bar is appropriate.
On the water, one wants constant grunt and a stable kite.

The 4-line rigs on bladder kites (sails) steer with the bottom lines (attached to the tips of the bar) and de-power through the top lines that run through the middle of the bar and attach to your harness.
Pushing the bar away lets the back of the sail out, allowing it to flatten in the wind and reduce the power, but the kite keeps flying.
One must wear a harness and be shackled into it for this to work.

Going out over-powered means that occasionally, sometimes on purpose and sometimes not, you get booted into the air.
The water absorbs most of that energy upon re-entry.

These kites are unlike anything we played with as kids, so we have no memory for context. Most percieve there is little or nothing one needs to "learn" about kites.

On land, we can use smaller, faster, more maneuverable ram-air wings (not sails) and by "zooming" the kite (flying it faster) one increases the power. The faster it goes, the faster it can go.

The risk of being booted into the air is much greater when coming down on hard ground. So going out under-pwered is much safer.

The momentary loss of power maneuvering the kite isn't such a big deal when you're riding on bearings. You don't sink. You don't even stop. You might stop accelerating for a moment, and perhaps have to alter your course a bit downwind, but those aren't problems for us.

4-line soft quads are rigged as 2-line steerable kites with two additional lines attached to the trailing edge of the wing and acting as wing-flaps or brakes.
These kites must be steered with the top two lines, so they are attached to the tips of the bar. The brake lines come throught the middle and attach to your harness.
Now, pushing the bar away pulls in the brake lines and the wing stalls and starts dropping back towards the middle of the wind window.
This is a very different situation. Very different.

Handles allow the flyer more control with less risk.
A strap between the tops of the quad handles allow the use of a harness without the inherent risk of shackling in.

Without always using a harness, bars are pointless.
The transition between bars and handles is only a barrier to those who are afraid and haven't tried.
Except one decries the loss of control with the bar.

There are exceptions.
The Peter Lynn TwinSkins and the Ozone Frenzy.
The Frenzy is notable because it is a variable-bridled foil that works on a bar.

On a foil, bridle lines are named the "a" lines (right below the leading edge), the "b" lines (next row down), the "c" lines and the "d" lines (usually the brake lines).
Pushing the bar on a Frenzy unloads the "b", "c", and "d" lines.
The kite keeps flying on the "a" lines, but most of the power can be moderated.

So my suggestion is to fly on land with handles and build great kite skills.
Those skills will translate to other aspects of this game.

Remember: In the marketplace the buzz word is "power".
But in our world, the word is "traction".
Too much power simply breaks your grip.

Helpful?


"I am often wrong, but never in doubt."

Safen Up! Buggy On!

the coreylama

the corylama pretty much summed up all of your questions chad, and a mighty fine job he did. Included in that you can find out about the depower vs. static power kiting too. It would seem as though most of us agree that you should just start with the handles, then if you so choose go out and buy a bar.For myself I'm often alternating between the two depending on what the wind is doing and the style of flying I want to do, what I feel like practicing that day, etc.

Good luck chad and look forward to hearing how your first venture goes. If I head out to visit my brother again I'll be sure to look ya up.
~Joe

Thank you coreykite for that great read.

I do have another guestion. It seems that o in the videos people who get air with the bars can control their rate of drop through the bar. Can you do the same with handles?

So what do you think I should get for my kite purchase. I can control a 2 line stunt kite with zero problems.

The Bullet is for pull mostly it seems and the Blade is for lift. Do you think there is any lift in a Bullet?

What would be the minimum wind speed one could fly?? If I go out and the wind is only like 6mph can I still learn and practice or would I be bored and frustrated trying to keep it up there.

Also what is a good place to buy the kite from?

Thank you guys for being so patient. i am sure you have answered these questions a zillion times.

Joe: That would be cool, let me know. Are there good places to fly in Laguna and are there any places to purchase kites in Laguna?

Thanks,
Chad

Chad,
Check your u2u's.
~Joe

Chad from one beginner to another.........Don't listen to the hype and be very weary of anyone who wants to sell you bigger as apposed to what's right and safe for you. Unless you have a death wish or like the interior decor of hospital rooms, take the advice from people that fly a number of various size kites for different wind conditions. I know it looks cool when you see experienced guys with very large kites at the beach, but be warned!!!....large kites can and will cause seriouse injury, if not treated with respect. Big kites do and will bite you in the ass when you least expect it. Make sure you have medical and third party insurance and happy and safe flying.