Ok.. here's a little background..

I've been kiting for about 4 months now.. I still feel very new to this and have in no way gathered massive amounts of skill yet.. but I want to kite more in the lower winds I have happening most of the year in my location.

I have a full range of kites in my quiver, but stopped at the 12m LEI.. and also have a 10m Ozone Access.

The bulk of my kiting is on land.. I have a couple boards(Flexboardz Mehndi & an old MTB).. I haven't really taken my LEI's out on the water yet, as I haven't really had enough wind to make it worth it at all..

I've gathered enough experiences and winds to be able to comfortably play around with my 10m Ozone Access on a board in 20mph winds.. it feels like a fish in water to me.. I am confident in my kite control skills, depower skills, and general all around flying skills.. but this kite won't hack it in the bulk of my winds I get.. a 20mph day is a major rarity here.

I would love to have a larger kite to be my go to kite. But I am not sure what to get?

My average yearly wind speed is 6mph.. buy a good windy day will be in the 10 - 15mph range. My area is prone to extremely gusty conditions.. with a 5mph breeze hitting 40mph in the blink of an eye and dropping back to 5mph again. I live in the desert, and suffer from thermal gusts often.

I am trying to understand the ARC kites, but I'm not sure if that is what I need.. there is nobody kiting around me in the area.. so I don't really have anyone to gauge a good kite size off of.

Right now the wind is 10mph.. and I'm probably going to go dink around with the 10m, but I know it won't really get me moving on the board.. it'll just be a playing around session..

So.. to sum it all up.. What would be a good kite and size to go with for my conditions and skills?

I can answer more questions if I haven't covered my requirements enough..

Thanks everyone,

Nomadic..

With the gust you are speaking of, it would be hard to name a good kite. I want to tell you to pick up a PL Phantom 18m and fly it like you stole it. Great kite, and most of the time my go to kite when the winds are under 15mph. Wont fly much before the 8mph range and only if completely inflated.

If you want to go with FB kite. Try the Reactor II 8.6 or 10.8. The 10.8 will fly in about 4mph winds but I would not suggest flying a kite like this in gusty winds that vary like you were speaking of. the 8.6 would work great if the winds were 10mph.

You may even want to look at something like the Matrix, you can use on water or land just like the PL twinskins and it has great handling characteristics.

I hope I didn't make matters worse

To clarify on the gusts.. you can see them coming.. (one of the benefits of desert dustiness).. so I can save myself rather quickly should a gnarly desert devil coming strolling in.. but growing up here I can say there are some devils out there that would surely kill someone with the wrong kite in the air... but the larger gusts like that are rare.. and would more than likely only have gusts strengths up to 10mph over the regular wind speed blowing at the time..

My 10m Access I can get up in near nothing winds.. but have to work it at anything below 8mph to keep it up.. and it definitely will not pull me in my desert terrain. It is a blast on the soccer field on the boards in low winds.. but I think I need a few steps up to make it behave on the desert and still pull me with some respectful power. At what point does the Foil kite size start pushing the flyer towards the arcs? What are the benefits of the arcs? I'm clueless here.. and would love and appreciate anybodies time in explaining this..


I've been seeing the phantoms in the higher size range.. and thinking if they might be what I need. I don't really know the wind ranges (low end) on any of them.. I've looked around for clues to it.. but haven't found anything solid for numbers. I have read that they are friendlier in gusty conditions (is this true?).. they may be the style of kite I'm looking for.. but don't know.

Thanks so far..

Nomadic

Arcs are considered gust munchers for the most part. I have had my 15m phantom out in winds ranging from 12mph to a little over 25 with occasional gust to close to 30. They all handle gust well in their wind ranges.. If you are on the board you will love the easy control of the arcs. I have had 16m venom and loved it and have a complete set of Phantoms and use them exclusively now on the board, in the buggy and also on the water. Look up the PL bible. I think it has relative wind speed range list on there somewhere. I will try to locate it and post it up. I would go for 15/18m phantom, 16m venom I or II. Just my opinion.

Lots of ARCs are sold all the time on this forum, more will be now as people switch to the phantom 2 and charger 2. I'd say find one of the lower aspect used ones in the 15-16m range. They seem to be a lot of people's 'go to' on this forum. I just like a slower floatier kite: hence the 19m.

Check here for the ARC Bible and also a wind range calculator:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/ARCsetup_FAQ.htm

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/mx5alan/arcs/wind_range.htm


ARCs are great kites in gusty conditions,

Alright.. thanks you guys thus far on your pitching in information.. those two links were awesome Soma.

It looks like I'm going to want a 19m Arc kite to be able to play on the wind ranges I have most of the time..

A quick question.. I think the bible made it look more complicated than it really is(being so overloaded with info).. but Once you have your kite rigged to your liking.. is it something you have to keep adjusting as you play with the kite or do you have to keep fiddling with lengths and settings of lines and rigging? I am also a solo flyer.. at least until I can sucker some friends into this hobby.. is a large arc kite difficult for self launch/landing? As apposed to a 10m OZ access?

Who's selling a 19m arc RTF?

I can't speak for the large Venoms or newest arcs but I am amazed at the low end I am getting out of my 18m Phantom. It is fast becoming my " Go To " kite until the wind is 12 or more kts ! It would appear I can work a ride out of it at 5 and have a good time by 8 kts but no decent jumps until 10kts.

I'm loving the sound of this...

For some reason I had it in my head that anything below 10mph was not going to get me moving.. which was a depressing thought.. because I could got almost any day of the week for at least 2 hours if I could get rolling with sub-10mph winds.

I'm looking at a couple different 19m Venoms that are being offered around... I weigh 150lbs.. that puts that kite and me into the 5 - 18mph range.. I like the sound of that.. A LOT. If the wind were to bump above the 18mph .. am I going to do a long range Mary Poppins? or will it just give my skill levels some testing? Just curious how big the tiger is before I grab it's tail..

Can anyone recommend a bar for the Venom? The ones I'm looking at come with them.. but I'd like to hear what others have to say about the PL bars and what would be a good one to have with the kite..

Nomadic

You may want to look at one size smaller than the 19 for your first arc. If you've only been flying for 4 months it would be hard to recommend something so huge for someone as small as yourself. And as far as a bar goes, you can tune lines, but you'll need a long depower throw.

Well, I took the plunge and picked up a Venom 19M.. I agree. It is probably on the bigger edge of what I need.. but I think to match my terrain with the horses I need pulling me.. the 19M is going to give me the most bottom end range of wind... given my size and its size.

I'm definitely not going to say I have mad skills with kites :D .. but I'm no slouch either, even given the short time frame I've been landboarding with them. I can assure you I'm going to approach the 19M venom as the behemoth it is.. but I have to take in consideration the fact that 80% of my wind is 6-10mph nonstop with moderate thermal gusts +5 - 10mph but come in small bursts. If I want to play, I have to get a horse. How me and the horse treat each other.. we'll see. :karate:

I hope the kite and I get along.. if it scares me, or becomes unapproachable in desert winds.. I'll sell it and migrate to something that fits better..
but I have a feeling its going to love it here..

Thanks everyone for the input thus far.. the links have been great to read, and are instilling confidence in my purchase.

I'll definitely follow up on my experiences with it.. coming from a person who is taking the arc plunge blindly.

Nomadic.

Man that was a quick decision! it takes me months to decide on kites!

Its a bit late now but your other options would have been a large high aspect ratio fixed bridle. I use my 6.6m blade in light winds at the moment. Because its not that huge it is easy to launch and then you can generate plenty of power by just flying it hard. I weigh 10 lbs more than you and its enough for fun on the landboard or static jumps right down to 8mph. Its also the only kite I fly on handles - i like the extra fine-control for dealing with low winds.

Also thinking about a park n' ride kite for light wind and I think its going to be a 19m or 21m flysurfer. I used to have the 19m venom but found it very slow and hard to launch when the wind was less than 10mph. The only venom I have kept is the 13m which is just awesome

I can board pretty well on the 10m Access in light wind down to 10mph. Try throwing it around a bit more? Either that or you could try a 13m Frenzy which will fly on the same bar or pick up a used 13m Manta?

Have fun with the Venom anyway! It will certainly pull you and you can get nice floaty jumps. Plan your turns well in advance though!!

Nomadic your desciptions of your experiences and flying conditions give my an uneasy feeling. Most of my uneasyness comes from the phrase "desert thermals" and 150# and 19meter floaty kite. I deal with whirling , swirling , rolling ,gusty wind but it is mostly horizontal in movement. Your desert thermals are a completly different animal , besides the multidirectional winds they create you've got vertical lift, maybe visible maybe not. No amount of "gust munching" is going to ease the pucker your going to feel as the Mary Poppins effect kicks in. If nothing gets too out of whack you might have enough composure to enjoy the float down. See what information you can dig up from paragliding , hang gliding and hopefully some of the desert kiters will touch base with you.
Have fun but stay out of trouble.

Thanks both of you for the words of caution..

While my winds (gusts) can be rowdy.. I've played them up a bit to give them the respect they deserve..

I don't intend to kill myself with this 19M.. but do intend to be able to play in my low wind days..
I definitely don't have a death wish.. and if my winds creep into the teens, my 10m Access is going to come out of the bag.. until I have the super confidence I personally need with the Venom.

Every time I've gone out to play with the wind.. I always wear the dangers on my sleeve so I can see them. I agree.. this is a huge kite for me.. but I'm going to give it all the breathing room it needs before I wrangle it like I stole it..

I would love to hear from other desert kiters.. I'm feeling lonely out here in the sand and cactus fields.. and my only audience is people pointing and saying "WTF are you doing?"

I'm just tired of watching all these low wind days go by.. and I can't even get a kite up in the air.. let alone pull me on a board.. and now I have a dirtsurfer.. waaaa this kid wants to ride..

No wind here today.. so I'm going to drive to the top of a 10,000 mountain pass.. and dirtsurf all the way home.. weeee

Nomadic.

One thing you may want to do is get a fan to fill it?

I personally feel that if there isn't enough wind to fill the kite naturally there won't be enough to power me even if I get it in the air? A good fill is key though so having a fan to top it up is an advantage.

I find my 18m Phanny has very little less in low end than 10m Access back to back on snow. Like others mention, spanking your access around can squeeze it's bottom with apperant wind. The slow nature of the large arcs makes spanking a slow go.

If this kite doesn't cut it for you , I suggest you look at the Flysurfer Speed series next.

Are you riding actual desert or on a dry lake in the desert? 10m access should get you moving easy on a dry lake with 10mph winds?

On the fan idea: thanks!.. great suggestion.. I have a heavy duty river boat pump that hooks upto my car battery.. I use it to pump up river rafts all the time.. I"m sure it can do some inflating for me in the low winds..

I spank the hell out of my 10M Access, a lot.. but it won't pull me very consistently in a soccer field.. not that I don't go anyways.. I go.. everytime the wind blows.. and I'm not complaining when I get to roll 100'.. not at all.. I just don't want to have to stop riding to wait for another breeze..

If I have to spank the 19m Venom too.. then so be it.. it'll just make me better at spanking it..

The flysurfers look very appealing too.. if the venom isn't the one I want.. I'll probably head that direction..

And yes.. it is the desert tundra.. I have a wide variety of terrains to choose from.. but I've found a couple good sets of flats that I can play on pretty well.. it has an odd sand/hardbase texture.. but with a little extra wind, my MTB, Flexboardz, and Dirtsurfer can cut it pretty well - hold traction - and still get rolling with a 10mph breeze.. but some of the other areas come with Cactus Slaloms, Stone Outcroppings, Flash Flood Gullies, or Sage Brush obstacles... it is definitely a carving paradise..

My closest dry lake bed (The Salt Flats) is in N. Utah.. and it's about a 4hr drive from me... I'll go one day.. but not sure when..

Nomadic