hello firstly let me say that i am not a complete and utter newbie to this sport/hobby, although i am looking at progressing into it by buying a landboard or buggy, along with a 4-line kite, i just do not know were to start looking in terms of what size kite to go for as a first time four line, and what is a good size for either mode of transport, furthemore what buggy to buy, as in brand, are they all similar or is it a case of you get wht you pay for.
:puzzled:

Hi, welcome to the forum, and the addiction. First I will ask what experience do you have in traction kites. (what have you flown). Second, how much do you weigh, and what are your flying conditions. Are you flying on the beach, on a grass field, what is your wind average. Usually we suggest getting a 3m kite, something like a Beamer, Toxic, Hornet, maybe even a Viper. (these are just a couple of different kites, and a couple of different manufacturers). If you have some experience with a 3m kite, you could possibly move up to a 4 or 5m kite. You would want a kite with a little higher aspect ratio for the buggy and board, something that will fly out and give you power to the edge of the window.

As far as boards, there are a lot of different makes and price ranges on boards, There are Trampa boards, (which we sell) Scrub boards ( we also sell), GI, MBS, and so on.

Buggies also differ in models and price range. Comfort and price are usually the factors that most people keep in mind when buying a buggy.

Where do you live, there may be someone around you that can get with you and let you try some stuff out.

Feel free to give me a call and we can chat and see what it is you are looking to get into.

Oh and make sure you buy from a reputable shop or person that is trusted on this site, Some of the deals are great on ebay, if you see something that you like, shoot it by us and we can help make sure you don't wast your money. It is very tempting at times, but it can also cost you in the long run.

thanks should have probably mention experience, and flying areas, i have flown a few different sized kites currently owning a exit 1.4m, which got me into this hobby, i also have a 2.2m eolo radsail, although i have flown either a 2.8m or 3m quad line very briefly for about 10-15 minutes at most, usage would be on a beach mainly, i live in the UK and live about an hour or so in both east or west directions, wind speeds can also vary, on average the places i have been get at least 10mph roughly 8.5knots and a max of about 25mph again roughly 21knots, although i have only flown in between 15 and 19mph, 13 to 16 knots"varies each time" as for weight im roughly 95kg if height is necesary 6 foot 3"

Being you have a little experience, you could buy a 4 or 5m, kite, you would just have to have some mad respect for it. In 25mph winds, a 5m kite will be handfull if you are not prepared that's for sure. But if you are flying in avrg winds 15-19mph it would work well in the buggy and on the board. You are surrounded by kiters in the UK, I am sure that someone on here will chime in and meet up with you. I guess the phone call will be out of the question That could get expensive quick!

thanks for the advise, for the buggy, is a 5m really the minimum? or is that more for them wind speeds? would you recomend buying the kite, and getting a few days of flying it before thinking of getting into a buggy?

5m would probably be the minimum for the 15mph winds you were describing as your usual. That will get you going pretty good.

As far as flying the kite, yes buy the kite first, fly the heck out of it, just when you think you got it, try to fly it from pure muscle memory, Not flying blindfolded, but as if you were blindfolded. Your arms and hands become an extension of the kite and kite lines, and vise versa. You should be able to tell where the kite is in the window without looking to see where it is, your arms and hands will help guide the kite to where it should be when you need it to be in the case that you are avoiding an obstical (kid, dog, hole on the beach, another kiter, or just a passer by). Practice brake turns, practice emergency release, practice recovories from unexpected gust or lulls, just learn the kite. I flew my first kite for better than 6 months or so before I even considered getting in the buggy. ( not saying we all will)

While in the buggy or on the board, you have to know how to get yourself out of situations that may arise while riding. This will all be worth it in the long run. Oh and get your self some pads, and a helmet and get used to wearing them.

helmet would have been purchased at the point of getting the buggy/board as for wearing both i am an ex field hockey goalie so am pretty used to wearing larger pads and the helmet, i will look at getting the kite, find one that suits the bill so to speak and take it from there with your advice

would you recomend a skate boarder style helmet or full face, just a query

Skate helmet would be ok, lots of guys wear skate helmets when ATB'n, in the buggy, I wear a MX helmet. Different strokes for different folks, as long as you are wearing a helmet you will be better off. Remember this saying, "live to ride another day" If you think conditions are sketchy, or may seem to be extremely gusty,you feel uncomfortable, pack up and wait till tomorrow, There will always be more wind!

If you have not looked up kite buggying, or kite landboarding on Youtube or vimeo or what ever your favorite video land is, do so, there are some great videos out there, some learning lessons out there too, like the things not to do.

ive looked on youtube recently as it is only within the last week i have made the decision too take things further in terms of although the videos that i have seen dont give an indication of kite size, and agreed really with the saying, as i have done other sports such as skiing where a similar one was used by the instructor, "live to ski for another day"

On a land board to be conservative at the beginner stages an 8m ozone access/hq apex will get you going on a hard packed beach. You can get jumping in the higher winds as you get better. A 10m would suit better in that area but your skill may or may not be ready for that much kite.

yeah, some of them are not very imformative. Check out www.coastalwindsports.com, Angus has some great tutorials on there. Also check out Carl's videos. He has a host of them on PKF in the landboarding section. Also look up the guys right there in the UK, Push Kiting. They have some insane videos!

reading the first tutorials for what you will need, i wear glasses anyway, so would they do, i also own a pear of toughened safety glasses in the same prescription if normal will not do, secondly a camel bag would suffice for drinking water would it not for learning saves having to carry multiple bottles?

i have another question for this post, how do de-power kites work, is there essentially a vent in the kite material to release some of the pressure/power being created or am i not thinking properly :bouncy:

The angle of attack (AoA) that the kite flies in the window is adjusted on the fly by moving the control bar towards or away from the kite. Essentially the front flying/pulling lines come to a Y point and travel down a single line that runs through the bar on a chicken loop and onto your harness. The two outside lines attached to the bar ends are your brake lines and connect to the kites rear bridle lines. When you have the bar pushed away from you towards the kite, it is allowed to fly flatter in the window, moving faster and catching less wind (more or less depower). If you pull the bar in towards you the rear lines tighten and pull the trailing edge down creating the the added angle of attack (also the wingtips scoop in more from the pulley bridle system). The kite is then catching more wind slowing down in the window, but generating more power. Usually the front line has a trim strap that allows you to fine tune the AoA to the conditions you are flying in. Trim is just lengthening or shortening your front lines.

A depower kite of the same size of a fixed bridle kite will normally have less power. Example is like a 3-4m fixed bridle having a similar power to a 6ish meter depower. Very suggestive though as there are other variables that come to play when talking about size vs power. Also due to the bridle/pulley setup of a depower the kite isn't nearly as responsive as a fixed bridle kite. Its very common to switch to Depower board because of the strain it takes of your arms, and the wider wind range that a Depower has over Fixed Bridle. The Access and Apex that I mentioned are often considered a beginner level kite because of the aspect ration (length vs width) they are more stable and have less lift. The smaller sizes (4-6m) are often carried in an experts quiver as a high winds storm kite; that, will take them home safely in the event conditions turn ugly.

http://www.tractionkiting.co.uk/traction-kiting-forum/31-kit...

Welcome to the addiction.

Check out the boys at www.pushkiting.com . They are our heros and pretty close to you!

Kite; 5m is a good size but be ready to accept that it is too big for winds up in to the 20's. As you learn to control the power you will be able to handle stronger winds. YES, get the kite and become it's " Master " before trying the buggy. So much easier to consintrate on one skill at a time . Going with a fixed bridle is a cheap way to get started. You won't need a harness with it but can hook in once you do get one. You need a harness with a depower kite.

If buggy is your direction, practice sitting down and getting up with the kite. Getting set into your buggy can be a challenge of it's own. Having practiced a bit before helps.

with whatever kite i decide to buy, if i am intending on using a buggy would anyone suggest using a bar over the handles, if so im pressuming buy the kite with the bar and sart using it as the set

That is a total personal preference. You will here a hundred ways why the handles are better and why flying with a bar is better. If you are flying a F/B set up, I would use handles, if you choose to fly on a bar, get a depower. There are several open foil depower kites that offer great stability as well as respectable power. Some people prefer to fly with handles, mainly becuase they can "fly" their kite. You can also get a Crossover bar to fly most of the F/B four line kites on as well. Takes the stress off your arms while allowing you to still have the feel of a open cell kite. I prefer depower my self. But like I said, it's just my preference.

by F/B do yoiu just mean a standard kite such as the hq beamer V,

Yes, F/B stands for fixed Bridle. As in a Beamer. Sorry about that.

this should now be my final question, are the lines connected in the same way on a qyad line, as they are on a two line kite, or are they done differently?

Quad line kite= Power lines connect to each of the two bridles nearest the top (leading edge) of the kite, then to their respective top leader of the handle. Brake lines connect to each of the bottom bridles of the kite, then to their respective bottom leader of the handle. On quad line kites you can tell the power lines because they should be thicker in diameter than the brake lines as they are rated for more weight than the brake lines.

thanks, although the answer given wasnt what i inteded, but i believe this may have been due to me not being clear in the question, i have now chosen a kite, although would like to know if anyone has any experience with this brand/model, if so are there any reasons why i should or shouldnt buy it, this is what i am looking at in the 5m model,http://www.powerkiteshop.com/peter_lynn_hornet_kite.htm

The PL Hornet was my first quad-line kite. The Hornet is very beginner friendly but the 5M size is a very large and powerful kite to learn on. It could be a little scary for you if you catch a stray gust or take it out in winds that are higher than you may be ready for.

Like Annieo Says, the Hornet is a great kite for beginners. You could be o.k. with the 5m as long as you begin in winds around 8-10 mph. Much more than that and you could be in for a handful. Don't want you getting kicked the first time out. So just remember to start slowly and work your way up. Wear the supplied kite killers and use them if you have to. Have someone show you how to set up if you can. Practice for hours on end just flying the kite and getting used to the brakes and using brake input to help you turn the kite. Practice lauching the kite and landing the kite properly. Do not start off with a dead down wind launch, learn to launch at the edge of the window and bring the kite back. Make sure you do not hold on to the handles with a death grip,(wrapping your thumbs around the handles) put your thumbs on top of the handles like they should be. fly with your fingers. Like we said before, live to fly another day and you will have a great time.

thank you for you help, there is one other question, although this isnt the first time i have asked another after my previous question being my final, but in terms of harnesses, as i am thinking of using the kite with a buggy eventually, would you recomend flying the kite with the harness for some time before buying the buggy, or would you say to get the buggy and harness together with items like the helmet:puzzled:

Keep on asking! That's what this forum is all about.

You can get the harness right away. Use it just to rest up , walk up wind and such at 1st. This will extent the amount of fly time you have each time out. It is all about flying the kite and setting reflex memory at 1st. If you can do that then transitioning to the buggy will be much easier. Buggy and harness are not essential. Many people I know ride without a harness at all. Just like with learning to fly , you will want to work at being hooked in while riding a bit at a time. The larger the kite the more a harness is of value.

2 line or 4 line, the kite flies on the front lines. The back ( break ) lines come into play only for reverse launching, Backing the kite down, Slowing the kite and break turns. You can fly a 4 line kite 2 line on the front lines and not use the brakes at all.