Anybody care to comment on my idea of adding a landing line to the back leader lines of my LEI water kites for snow/land use?
I'm selling off my foil snow kite, which has a landing line, and it's a handy feature for snow use. What I don't know, since I haven't used my inflatables on the snow yet, is how well a landing line works for landing and reverse launching a LEI.
-Barry
[edit: this would be for a control bar setup, not handles.]

Some lei Kites reverse launch using the OS loops. I don't think old C-kites can relaunch strait backwards though I could be wrong

I used to suggest that this doesn't work but was told I am wrong.

Barry if you want to kill the power with a added safety feature look at the 5th line option.
North Element shows the set up.
As for reverse launching, set up your LEI on grass and practice-practice-practice rolling the kite.
Did I forget to say practice.
Welcome to the Forum.

If you want to use it to bring the kite down rather than reverse launch it is going to get even more interesting.

Try it well padded and in the low end of the wind range ! I suspect bringing it down well powered will be like trying to do the same with an arc ? Not easy.

When that doesn't work try 5th line. That is how the industry went.


:bigok:

Not sure anything extra is necessary,

Had a 2006 naish shockwave I used last year....snow is goona give your LE a workout...
That 2006 had next to no LE protection so I added tenacious tape to the LE areas where there was stitching so it wouldn't wear out from rubbing on snow/ice. Worked well.

In light winds, like the fellas mentioned above, pulling the 2 back lines hard (just like a foil) would lift it up and you reverse launch it. BUT, i did try this on a 2010 switchblade in light winds and it didn't work well...those switchboards don't like back stalling at all...so probably depends on your kite.

In stronger winds, usually just pulling on one line would move it to the edge and it would raise on its edge and relaunch.

Landing..In light winds I would just move it to the edge and let the bar go and tug on the top line hard to flip it in its LE. Took a bit if practice but was reliable.
In stronger winds I would use an anchor if available (just like the water but use an climbing ice screw)
Or, if not available, I would let it go to the edge of the windows on the ground and pull the safety (which would go to one line)...only did this a couple of times and it was uneventful and didn't seem too rough on the kite.
Obviously, a partner is best, but considering the post I am assuming your talking about solo techniques.

I tried a 5th line on my SS turbo diesel for a little while, it would end up hovering 6-8 feet above the ground, you might need to tinker with location on the kite to get it to work properly.

Quote:

Originally posted by snowspider I tried a 5th line on my SS turbo diesel for a little while, it would end up hovering 6-8 feet above the ground, you might need to tinker with location on the kite to get it to work properly.

Is it possible the 5th line was too short ?

Maybe the attachment point was made as pump leash and in the wrong spot>

Thanks for all the comments...

My only snowkite experience is with the HQ Apex III [foil] that had a landing line [actually a line reinforced with webbing bridging the two rear leader lines] which was very nice way to stake down the kite with a ski or pole. Not used to park the kite for long periods, just right before launching and right after landing. Too risky when the kite was very powered-up [I'd pull the safety then], but OK for the kite's normal wind range. I could stake the landing strap/line with a ski or pole with the kite straight downwind - in an oversheeted/stalled state - and hotlaunch from there or unclip from the harness and park the kite properly. Having the strap to grab with one hand, instead of needing to use two hands in grabbing both rear lines, was nice...

I used my 12m Cult on snow for 2 seasons before I ever got in the water with it.

Modern SLE LEI's are really easy to launch on your own but landing can be more tricky without pulling the safety. Mostly I would just fly it to the edge of the window and let it sit on its wingtip (it will just sit there with very little power) if I was just taking a break or do the same and then pull the safety at the end of my session. If you are over powered for the conditions then there may be too much power to stay still with the kite at the edge of the window

if you are on a frozen lake then make an anchor to launch and land off with an ice screw; a climbing sling (or piece of 7mm/8mm cord) and a carabiner. In deep snow dig a hole, fill a bag with snow and bury the bag, packing everything down with sling wrapped around it to clip to. A sling round a boulder is good too, or I have launched off the car a few times when you can park right at the spot.

5th lines are only really useful on C kites. Hybrids and Bows are so user friendly these days that you don't need them. They just add drag. As for reverse launching, I'm not sure why you would ever need to.

I would still stick to foil kites on the land (frozen or otherwise) but there is no reason why you shouldn't use LEIs unless you are going to crash them alot. If a landing line of some sort was necessary then i'm sure kites would be fitted with them.

EDIT - Having just read your second post I understand what you mean better but that would not work on an LEI - for obvious reasons i would have thought!!
What LEIs have you got?

Re: Why LEIs for snow?
Want just one kite quiver [mostly for water use] and not two. Makes room for other toys in the budget that way. And with the gusty wind that I've had the pleasure to experience in NM, a LEI kite seems to cope better in lulls/holes. I purchased the foil kite because I thought I'd destroy my LEIs learning how to snowkite, but hindsight has showed me that probably wasn't going to be the case.

Re: Anchors
Most of my snow kiting is in deeper snow and I use a deadman/sling.

Re: Kite quiver
LEIs - 13.5M Griffin Argo, 9M Switch Method and just bought a cherry 5M RRD Obsession Turbo 2 for my Better Half's first snowkite.
Foil - 10M HQ Apex III which is for sale, but I didn't want to turn this thread into a FS plug.

Quote:

Originally posted by lives2fly ... I would still stick to foil kites on the land (frozen or otherwise) but there is no reason why you shouldn't use LEIs ... ...if you are on a frozen lake then make an anchor to launch and land off with an ice screw... What LEIs have you got?

ya, I missed the original idea as well...kinda assumed a 5th line idea.

*might* be helpful...but only to reverse launch (not land the kite, nor to take a break)...definitely helpful for foils cause that's how you take a break and land in light-medium winds.

The only time you are reverse launching a LEI is in light winds. Still, it could be handy, cause you can leave one hand for the bar, but really...In any other winds, the kite will single line launch. This will be especially the case in deeper snow cause you need stronger winds to ride. Doubt you would use it much.